Intro: Broadcasting live from our flagship studio in Atlanta, Georgia. This is scaling in public. The next 100 Business RadioX markets, featuring founders Lee Kantor and Stone Payton, along with some of America’s top coaches, helping them grow the network with real strategy, real lessons, and real accountability all shared in public. To learn more about the proven system that turns podcast interviews into a perpetual prospecting pipeline through generosity, not gimmicks, go to Burks Intercom and download the free Business RadioX playbook. Now here’s your host.

Stone Payton: Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of addition of scaling in public. Lee Kantor Stone Payton here with you. Please join me in welcoming to the session our coach today, James Castleberry. How are you man?

James Castleberry: Doing great Stone. And thank you. Thank you both for having me this afternoon.

Stone Payton: Well, it’s our pleasure. All right, man. Help us grow this thing.

James Castleberry: All right, so basically, what we do is, is help with clarity. Wherever that clarity may go, wherever that clarity may take us. Sometimes it’s an individual leader and and how they interact with their teams. Sometimes it’s helping a team understand where their challenges may be and their strengths may be. And then aligning, uh, what we can from those strengths and from those challenges to whatever their, uh, strategic goals are, what their missions are to help them move forward. And so, uh, with us, this is a little different than, than most of what we do. You guys have already had debriefs concerning the QE 2.0. That is the, um, the valid and reliable assessment that we use and the tool that I use to help teams and, and executives grow. And so, uh, I guess I would like to understand a little bit about what your impressions were of your results.

Stone Payton: Uh, well, I can go first on, on that one. I wasn’t terribly surprised at the the highs and the lows, the the outliers, if you will. And I gotta say, I think if my wife read the report and I think I may give her a chance to read it, I don’t know that she would be surprised, uh, either. So, you know, it’s all for me. It’s good to self-reflect. Think about that. I try to be self-aware, but what I’m really thirsty for is, okay if this is my nature or this is my behavior pattern. Where and when and how do I need to adapt, do some things differently that will that will help us grow this business. You know, better and faster. So I’m I’m thirsty for that. That next step with this.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I would agree with Stone in this regard. It was interesting to go through it. And it was uh, a lot of the results were things that I thought were, you know, pretty accurate. But then how do you take that next step of taking that information and that intelligence and making it work to help us achieve our goal of growing the network? Like, how can we, you know, amp up our strengths, either develop or hide our weaknesses? Uh, to help us get to the objective we have.

James Castleberry: Yeah. And so one of the things I do want to mention now, for those that are, um, are, um, accustomed to using B-level psychometrics is both Stone and Lee have consented to the use of this, uh, in coaching and, um, and so where we would normally keep this at a confidential level, they both, uh, have agreed to this and this, uh, scaling in public coaching forum. So I just wanted to make sure that that was out there so that our listeners understand that this is coming from a place of consent for their their mutual growth. And a.

Stone Payton: Good disclaimer. James, I don’t blame you. You don’t you don’t do a radio show out of everybody’s session.

James Castleberry: No, no, absolutely. Just just the opposite. Usually it’s one on one. Or if we’re talking about it in a group session, then everything is anonymous. And so, um, you know, these results are, are typically confidential. And then coaching sessions are typically confidential. And so this is uh, this is a little bit different forum that we’re using. And it’s the purpose uh, for you guys in scaling in public. And so based on your individual results and what you saw, um, as your strengths, how were you using those already to help you, uh, to scale the business?

Lee Kantor: I mean, I’ll take this first since, um, one of the outliers for me was, uh, interpersonal relationships. And this whole business was built and was created to shore up that side of my personality. I’m not a people person. Uh, I don’t get a lot of energy from, uh, being around people. I’m an introvert more than an extrovert. So I created this system and the Business RadioX platform to help myself, uh, have an easier path to meeting people and from maybe changing the frame of me seeking them out to them, wanting to be part of what I was doing. So the whole business is built basically on Probably the biggest outlier I had in the results of my assessment, which was interpersonal relationships.

James Castleberry: And how do you think that’s going for you, Lee? If that’s the whole reason that we’re into this and one of your reasons for it. Uh, what what steps have you made, uh, in improving this, that you’ve seen, uh, that, uh, that’s visible as a business result?

Lee Kantor: I mean, what has occurred as a business over the 20 years we’ve been doing this is that there has been people out there who have partnered with us and have, um, tried this on themselves and for a variety of reasons, not, uh, in fact, probably not. I would say the minority of them are introverts. The majority of the partners we have thus far are more extroverted, who see other ways to leverage the platform than what I initially did. But for me personally, I think that it has been validated that this is a great way to build more relationships faster with more of the right people. So from that standpoint, I think, um, it was it was doing exactly what I had set out to do.

James Castleberry: What do you still find challenging about it?

Lee Kantor: Um, what what is the it you’re referring to?

James Castleberry: Um, well, you you speak about being an introvert, and, uh, one of your other interviews, I, I heard, um, mention of. How do you get the same feeling in the studio that you can get virtually. And, you know, we deal this with, uh, with globalization. It’s one of my areas of study. And so we deal with this and and the way that people perceived virtually even their own emotional intelligence is a little bit different, because you can’t feel that, that same emotion research tells us we can feel emotions 6 to 10ft away. You can’t feel that as good virtually. So, um. What what are we doing? Uh, to be able to try to get that same feeling virtually out there in this platform that we, we otherwise might get if we’re in the studio in person.

Lee Kantor: Uh, that’s an area that we’re working on, is to try to create some sort of a virtual experience that can capture some of the magic that happens face to face in a studio. So that is an area that we haven’t figured out yet, and we’re working on to better create those that kind of level of intimacy and sharing and, um, the visceral feeling that occurs in a studio that just doesn’t occur as easily or as elegantly virtually.

James Castleberry: Yeah, I think there’s ways that you can do that. Most of that is wrapped around, um, uh uh, the, the the psychology of people feeling comfortable, uh, and and building that trust and understanding how you can build that trust. Um, virtually, I think.

Lee Kantor: So what are some examples? How how could you share some examples of ways that we might not be aware of or haven’t considered in order to build that level of intimacy and trust? Is there some things you’ve learned from doing your kind of work virtually, that maybe we could borrow and put into our playbook?

James Castleberry: Yeah, a lot of it is visibility, right? And we say, okay, we’re doing this virtually. Um, there is a difference in a meeting if people have their cameras on or if they don’t have their cameras on. And this can be challenging. But we read so much and we hear so much virtually from body language and people’s expressions and, and trying to understand, just like we would in person. We might not feel it the same way if we’re not in person, but, uh, that’s one, uh, method where we can really see it. I the advantage of being the intelligence field when I was in active duty. And so for years and years we had top secret, uh, teleconferences, and you could, uh, regardless of who you were talking to and how far away they were, um, you got a different feeling from that leader. Not not based on the typical things that we build trust on. Typically it’s consistency. It’s transparency. Um, but and professionalism, uh, all those things count too, in a virtual environment. But you can add to that in the way, um, that there’s you try to develop a personal connection and you keep that even if it’s virtually. And some of that’s understanding a little bit more about the people that you’re talking to. Uh, Stone, stone example of yours might be the the recent hunting trip that you talked about and just sharing a little bit. And you have to have your boundaries, but sharing a little bit of that personal background so that people can say, okay, he’s like me in this way, or he’s like me in that way, and that helps build those interpersonal relationships. Uh, it helps him understand that you have empathy. It helps them understand that if you do some of the same things, you might find some of the same things mutually satisfying. Um, and so, uh, for you, do you feel closer, even if it’s virtually, uh, stone, if you’re talking to someone online with, uh, if the camera is on, if the camera is off or if you relate a personal story.

Stone Payton: So would the camera on for me, like, uh, built into our core system anyway is often a pre-call to help someone get ready for a Business RadioX interview. And and of course, that’s the you know, the coaching version of that is, is a discovery call, which is one of the reasons this worked so well for coaches. But I have found in doing those pre calls that and I do some not with Cameron, like if I, if I’m out at the archery range and it’s a 430 afternoon call, I might not be on camera, but if I’m in the, in the office or in the local studio here, when you’re on camera, I can pick up on body signals. I think they can see my enthusiasm. So I think it does add a a layer of trust and does add to the dynamic more often than not. If, uh, if we’re on camera during those during those phone conversations. Yeah.

James Castleberry: Do y’all typically do those as a team together because they’re going to see you as a partnership taking this forward, do y’all typically do discovery calls together?

Stone Payton: Uh, no. Typically I’m doing the discovery calls okay.

Lee Kantor: But historically, before the pandemic, we would be together in person, right?

James Castleberry: Oh.

Lee Kantor: Virtual occurred beginning after the pandemic, when we had to go virtual when we no longer could meet in in the studio. We had to pivot to virtual. So that was the beginning of that of being on camera or not being on camera.

James Castleberry: So do you think there could be a difference? Uh, when you met in person, you both met in person instead? I think that’s what I’m hearing is that you both met in person, but, uh, most of the discovery calls now were done by, uh, Stone. Do you think there’s a difference in your comfort level and maybe a potential clients, um, comfort level with both of you? Um, when you participated together versus just a discovery call, being with one person.

Lee Kantor: Um, well, I, I do, I mean, I think it was more powerful when it was both of us together. Um, and I think it was more powerful in person, so. So, yeah, I agree that it was together was better than individually.

James Castleberry: So how how might you be able to maybe because this has been successful in the past, how might you be able to implement that, uh, to where, um, you, you can work toward? I’m not going to say it’s going to be the same as in the studio because you don’t feel that emotion, but, um, uh, could you see a way, uh, what might it look like if you were able to do those, uh, the same way, except. Except virtually now. So to hear from both of you.

Lee Kantor: At some point in the relationship, we do kind of join forces, but it hasn’t been on the initial call lately. I mean, how would you when do when do I typically get inserted into this stone?

Stone Payton: Um, more often than not. And again, this is with the scaling effort. As we’re talking to somebody. I’m just making a market up like San Diego. I might have that initial conversation with them, help them get prepared to come on a show. And then more often than not, there are some exceptions. Lee is the one that’s actually conducting the interview, so he’s building some rapport with them at that point. Um, although he’s probably not on camera during most of that, I suspect. And then, um, they schedule a follow up call to help them get the most out of their interview. And that’s usually with me. And then depending on the time of day and the day of the week, uh, you know, most of those would be on, uh, on camera. That’s the that’s the current methodology for trying to cultivate business and markets where we are not now at the local level, the way we’ve done it for 20 something years. It worked then, and it works now. I mean, that that recipe is, you know, locked and loaded. That’s a well baked process. It works. It always works. It never doesn’t work. But this going to markets where we don’t have physical representation yet and, um, trying to move a potential studio partner, uh, along that process. Um, we’re definitely struggling with that. And I think virtual is this virtual dynamic is is part of the challenge.

James Castleberry: Um.

Lee Kantor: So just to reiterate, the path right now is stone does the what we do some sort of outreach where the person agrees to come on a show? Stone does the initial kind of pre-interview. Uh, he’s usually on camera. He hands it off to me. I do the interview. That’s usually off camera. Then it goes back to stone. They agree to a follow up to see how best to leverage the content and how to get the most out of their interview experience. And that goes back to stone. And that’s in on camera interaction. And then from there, if it turned into, uh, a deeper conversation, whether they wanted to do this or not. And we could use Trisha as the example of how it could work then, because Trisha went through all of those steps, she I believe she had the pre-interview with Stone. She had the interview with me off camera. Then she went back with a post interview with Stone. And then at some point we all three, um, had an interaction and Trisha is usually on camera. So I would imagine she was on camera. I would imagine Stone was on camera. And to date Trisha and I have never been on. She’s been on camera, she has never seen me on camera.

James Castleberry: So I find this so fascinating that, uh, both Stone, you and Lee, you talk about how that engagement together was so very successful, uh, before Covid and then Covid changed the way that we all communicate. Um, so, uh, I wonder and, and some of coaching is experimenting to see if we can grow, if we can develop in certain areas. Um, could y’all see a way that if you went back to that methodology virtually that was so successful, uh, for you doing it together in the studio that it might have an impact?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I mean, we’re open to trying lots of things so that we’re definitely open to that. And what would be your recommendation of of when to insert both of us together into the process?

James Castleberry: Well, my recommendation, I guess, would be what’s worked for y’all in the past. And and Lee, we talked a little bit about, um, knowing success from the past. And Stone, we talked about some of your, uh, your strengths in communication and optimism and, um, and then um, and problem solving and so that there’s a reason that y’all work together. Uh, there’s a, there’s a reason that for so long, it worked together, even in the studio, it’s even more challenging. And we’ve acknowledged that it’s even more challenging communicating virtually. So rather than it be sequential being a new process that started out of Covid, would there be a possibility that combining it again, but doing it virtually might have the same impact?

Lee Kantor: I mean, we’re up for trying it virtually. I just don’t I’m having trouble figuring out how to do that. So I don’t have an answer on, um, Um. Do we do it together at every step? Do we do it together at a certain step? At one point, then it becomes together, um, because we’re no longer in the same place. So we’re all we’re at different points in our lives and with our efforts here. So. And before we would cut, both of us come into a studio physically together. And we haven’t done that in, I don’t even know how many years, seven years. It’s been over well over five years.

Stone Payton: Right.

Lee Kantor: Um, so I, I’m just having a hard time coming up with a system that does that in, uh. So that’s where I’m. I’m looking for what you your recommendations are on a way to even test it.

James Castleberry: Yeah. So so I think it would be. I think it would be no different. I think you would do the, the initial calls because there’s such value of you guys participating together, the the systematic thinking that you do. Uh, the problem solving that you do, Stone, and that combined interaction with a person, even for a discovery call, I think. And that’s no different than how they used to meet you in the studio first.

Lee Kantor: Well, it is different because that’s not how the process in the studio was in the studio. They would get invited to a show, then they would come into the studio to have the interview experience, and that was together. So they we didn’t have a pre-call in the studio. The the show was where we first met them so that they would come in and maybe a few minutes we’d do a little mic check and just get started. And then after that we would sometimes, uh, kind of organically. It would just lead to them having questions and then us being able to either answer them right there on the spot or schedule a follow up.

James Castleberry: Okay. No thank you. That’s helpful. So so stone drawn on your problem solving, seeing this and knowing that we’re facing kind of this virtual challenge right now in scaling and in scaling visibility will be important. Personal connection will be important. I had the opportunity to be a program manager for 100% remote AI company. So you had a lot of people in that company that were, uh, more introverted. They were coders. And then you had some that were in business development that were more extroverted, and they were outgoing. Uh, but they did have a kind of a battle rhythm schedule where we’d get together and we’d talk to folks and, and so I guess, I guess what I’m wondering is, um, in this virtual environment, how can we we use the strengths that you both have, uh, to look at this challenge of, of the same, uh, getting the same results out of our virtual meetings that you guys had in the, in the, in studio meetings.

Stone Payton: No, it’s a great set of questions. I will say that the the pre-call conducted by me individually certainly isn’t, um, keeping anybody from wanting to come on air. Um, and they would come on air even if we didn’t do the pre-call. But it is a marvelous relationship building moment. But there’s also this set of logistical questions or concerns about, oh, now, is Lee going to have to get involved in all the pre calls? But I’m wondering at this point of the conversation, can we kind of keep that in place. Stone has that pre call. Then they get the interview with Lee. But if once the conversation reaches the point where they are interested in hearing more about what we do, um, and and and even maybe even on the ones that just overtly express. Yeah. I’d like to at least get some input on how to get the most out of the interview that I did. So, you know, in that post interview call, if maybe a place to test this a little bit is once they get to a certain point in the process, bring Lee in and maybe even see if we can get Lee to come on camera, but at least bring him in to to that spot. That’s where my mind is at the moment.

James Castleberry: Yeah, I think I think that that leads to that, um, improving with the interpersonal communication. I think that it helps that visibility helps with trust. Um, that, that, uh, that maybe a little bit of personal connection, sharing a little bit of something. Um, you know, I didn’t learn about your family reunions or anything, stone, but I did find out a little bit about what you were doing, and I think that creates that that comfort level. And I think that builds a little psychological safety and trust. And so, um, in this, in the way that it’s being done sequentially. It sounds a little bit maybe like a job interview, right, where you’re screened by the HR person, and then you go to the the job interview and you meet with the hiring manager. Um, do you all think that there and you mentioned it a little bit stone, but do you think that there could be value? And I know that we have to, uh, conserve time. So maybe it’s a, a 15 to 30 minute call versus an hour call for, for both of y’all. But could there be value in y’all doing some of that together so that we can start working toward building that, that trust, that psychological safety, uh, in, in interpersonal relationships from the beginning?

Stone Payton: I mean, yeah, I mean, maybe I’m a little skeptical about it and a little reluctant to to jump on it with all fours just because of the time commitment, the dynamic. If I know I can get them with me and I can get them with Lee. And if I can adjust something about what we do when I’m with them and adjust something with them, when Lee’s with them and then and I guess it doesn’t completely bother me that it’s a little bit like a job interview if if what I’m doing is trying to bring them through a process and to some degree vet them as a candidate to be a studio partner. But I’m just so I’m a little reluctant and skeptical candidly, about getting Lee and I, both of us in the process all the way through. But I can see me doing something better and more in my conversation with them. Lee doing something better and more. Maybe when he does the interview, maybe he spends a little more time up front doing some of that rapport building, and then from there forward, if it’s someone we want, if it’s not someone we want to pursue as a studio partner, then I say put them through the regular process. But if it’s someone that we want to pursue as a studio partner, then, then maybe that call is definitely Leanne Stone with him. But maybe I’m being too resistant to your idea, I don’t know.

James Castleberry: No, no, no, Stone, I hear what you’re saying. And it’s about time management and and, uh, work life harmony. I totally get that. Um, but I also hear, uh, a little bit, uh, excitement about how, um, there may be ways to to make it a little bit more personal, to share a little bit more for for both y’all in other parts of the process that that might work. Um, Lee, can can you, uh, can you share a way that that that might be possible? Uh.

Lee Kantor: I don’t know. I’m the more we’re talking about it, I don’t see where the. I don’t think the problem thus far in the system, our system that we’re doing with Stone having the pre-call me doing the interview, stone having a post call that has Generated quite a few conversations with people of which none of them have have bought anything. So I’m very aware that it’s not working to the finish line, but I just can’t. I don’t know if the reason that’s the case is that because I’m not on camera with them? I mean, I’m not. I’m open to that might be a possibility and I’m willing to test that as a possibility, but I just don’t see thus far what we’ve been doing that that is the reason that they haven’t gone all the way to the finish line.

James Castleberry: Um, yeah. And I and I and I’m not saying that that is the reason I’m saying that. That’s one of the ways to build trust, right? I don’t want y’all to take that from that, y’all. Y’all have been successful. The challenge is getting to that that finish line. We’ve got these discovery calls from Stone afterwards. I’ve heard you say, uh, Lee and the other interviews that you want to get, uh, more knows the discovery calls are probably trying to figure out, um, you know, why we got the. No. And so I’m trying to help you all figure out a way that, um, we could use both your strengths and challenges that we learn in emotional intelligence, uh, to to try to get that close that you’re seeking.

Lee Kantor: Well, I mean, an area that I. That has come up that I think that I would like your opinion on as an EQ expert is that somebody mentioned to us that when, uh, when a potential buyer shares with us a level of enthusiasm and also skepticism, that we tend to focus more on the skepticism and less on the enthusiasm just because Stone and I are both from a sales and marketing background that we’re trying to, you know, eliminate objections and manage objections. So when we’re getting a combination of enthusiasm with skepticism, we have to be able to read those signals better and have better, um, a better way to move them more towards the enthusiasm side and maybe focus less on the skepticism side. So I’d like to get your thoughts on how to better read those signals and to deal with those signals to help move the prospect forward.

James Castleberry: Okay, so I think, I think this is one place where you think, uh, Lee, more systematically and, um, Stone’s going to come at this with a lot of positivity and problem solving, too. And so, um, you know, I would try to look at the trends that that you’re hearing in those calls and, and the direction that the call took. So do they talk to you about those, um, those things that they are in agreement on the things that they’re excited about? Um, and, and, and can those be used to help with those things that they’re skeptical about? And instead of diving right into the problem solving on what? Skeptical, um, are there ways that you can build on those things that are positive that might help them overcome the skepticism?

Stone Payton: We’re not on video, so you can’t see me grinning. But, um, in my in my as I continue to gray a little bit, I’m finally getting I’m finally learning that when Holly expresses my wife’s name is Holly, when she expresses frustration with something or something’s not quite going her way a what came out and was articulated as a strength. Optimism for me, obviously, apparently can really be a real weakness. So that combined with me jumping in and trying to solve the problem when all she really wants is somebody to shut up and listen, I’m thinking there’s probably some business application for some of that too, huh?

James Castleberry: No, no. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, it’s sometimes it’s that Brene Brown helps us with a different sense of sympathy and empathy. And a lot of times, people that are low in empathy and they’re, they’re higher in optimism, optimism to the to the effect that may be impacting reality, testing that, um, we’ll find that they’re highly sympathetic. Oh, man, that’s really bad. Yeah. That’s bad. And then if you mix that with high problem solving, you want to go help them solve that problem when really they just kind of want to want you to sit there and feel it with them. And uh, and to kind of go through it with them a little bit, you know, rather than saying, uh oh, that’s pretty bad down there. Crawl down in the hole with them and sit a while, you know.

Stone Payton: Well, and those are my outliers, right. That was my most positive, highest score was optimism. And my lowest was empathy. And, um, and so no, this is very this is very helpful.

James Castleberry: Yeah. So, so so for you, Stan. What what happens with your optimism is that as soon as you do listen and they start coming up with their own solutions, now you’ve got problem solving and optimism to work with. Right, right. But but it’s first that that listening. Um, and and so yeah I think how do we take those, those strengths uh, how do we take the, the systematic way um, to more to Lee’s question of of about how, um, um, how do we not focus so much on, uh, the things that are skeptical about, uh, to the point that, um, maybe that becomes more of the conversation than what they’re excited about. And so, you know, maybe validate those things that they’re excited about. Could you see how how, you know, we could use some of the same things that you’re talking about with Holly Stone? Um, in this area where we’re listening to those challenges and we validate those things and maybe ask questions about, um, could some of those things, if we’re talking business, could some of those things that they’re so excited about, how could we use those things, uh, to help them overcome some of those things are more skeptical about.

Stone Payton: Yeah. And at a tactical level, what kind of questions can I ask or prompts can I deliver that will get them talking about what they’re excited about, as opposed to only what they’re skeptical about?

James Castleberry: Yeah. And then and then let them get to that conclusion. So you say, okay, so you’re so excited about this. So how, um, how would you feel better about these other things, uh, and balance that with what you’re excited about here. They’re gonna solve their own problem. And it might be something that you could jump on and go with to get them to the close.

Stone Payton: Right. Yeah.

James Castleberry: Lee, what do you think about that?

Lee Kantor: Uh, I’m on board. I think that that makes a lot of sense and that. I think there’s definitely a place for using emotional intelligence in these types of closing conversations. So, um. Yeah, I’m on board.

James Castleberry: Yeah. So I think, you know, you each have individual goals, uh, that came, uh, from our conversations. And so if you think about those goals, you think about the accountability of those. Um, are there ways in the business that you could use, uh, those goals, uh, together, uh, to move forward, to move from the discussion where we’re not focusing as much on. Let me just ask you the question as to tell you, how could you use the goals that we set for both of you, uh, to move that, that, um, that challenge forward where the focus is not as much on, um, problem solving for them, but working with them in their strengths.

Stone Payton: I don’t know that I have the answer for that, but I think we need to find the answer for that. And and it could be as simple as now that Lee and I have this, um, yeah, it’s always helpful to have, like, a common language, right? Like a common nomenclature. So we know what to call some things, and we know a couple of the, um, the things that were surfaced through going through the assessment and the debrief with you. So there’s always power in this, uh, this accountability partner kind of thing. Um, and to try to keep each other in check on that or at least, at least bring that up, um, but also working hard in all of our messaging and all of that stuff to take the best of, of both of what we bring to the table and get it folded into those communications. I’m thinking.

James Castleberry: Yeah, I heard in another interview that y’all were talking about the the frequent writing and, uh, and then putting things in people’s, um, inboxes as, as quickly as possible. Um, uh, what what what is the greatest strength that you guys bring together, uh, to a client that they may not see in just the writing?

Lee Kantor: I think part of, um, what we bring to a client or a prospect together is that both John and I have similar values, but we both have a different kind of way about going about things. So it’s like you mentioned it, stone has a level of optimism, and he has a really, um, kind of enthusiastic personality. And all of that comes across where I’m more quiet and I’m more introspective, but I’m also good at analyzing things and maybe seeing things that neither one of them saw. So together, it’s pretty powerful when, um, we’re both together with somebody and they have an issue and we’re able to really tag team and get to the heart of the issue that maybe they didn’t see, or a way to achieve the outcome that they hadn’t thought about before. So they can get on board pretty quickly because we’re seeing it through two different lenses and together it becomes very powerful.

James Castleberry: Yeah. So but right now, what I think I’m hearing from y’all is that those strengths that you have, and even the way you balance one another because, you know, it’s like my wife, uh, my, uh, as an analogy, um, I, I things get blurry far away. Uh, for her, it’s hard for her to read, uh, the ingredients on a bottle that’s close to her. I said. So, you know, between the both of us, we’ve got one person that has perfect eyesight. So in this business, I think y’all balance really, really well based on what I see in your results and what we’ve talked about. Um, and so, uh, do you think that you could see value in, um, in when you’re both having this conversation with someone that you may be bringing on board. And this will this will be even more important as you, as you scale is to, uh, to focus in rather than the problem solving in those, those areas. Look at what they’re enthusiastic about. Look at what they’re positive about, what they enjoy about it, and then talk to them. Uh, because y’all can both problem solve together, bouncing off of one another with, uh, with a client. But think about how that stuff can be, um, uh, how they may be able to use. And sometimes maybe y’all go into the coaching mode that you both can do in business. Really well, go into the coaching mode there of asking them, well, these things that you enjoy, how can we use that to overcome some of some of these challenges that that you’ve brought up? Is there a way that you can see how we can overcome some of these challenges that you’re bringing up?

Stone Payton: I do think there’s power in that. And then I also just wrote down, and this is beginning to address my logistics, my skepticism and all that or my hesitation around logistics. We have this process with the with me doing the Pre-call lead, doing the interview, me doing the the post interview call. And it is overtly framed and always includes helping them use things that we have seen and done over the last 21 plus years. On how to fully leverage the fact that you’ve invested the time and energy to do the interview. And then there’s there in some of those conversations, there has been from me, um, opening up the conversation about exploring the idea of being a studio partner, you know, in Pittsburgh or San Diego or whatever. And now what I’m thinking is the if it’s someone that I really think should explore, that I should tell them that give them like the the easy next step, but then the next step is this fourth step that we don’t have built in officially. And that is a conversation with with me and Lee and the person so that we get to bring everything you’re describing. We get to actually bring it into the equation. And that is worth Lee’s time and my time together. To have that, to have a conversation in that fourth step, is that make sense?

James Castleberry: Perfect sense for me. What do you think, Lee?

Lee Kantor: Um, I think a way to address that might be maybe when you’re doing that, call the third step. Write the follow up. Yeah. Is that I am. You only do it when I’m available so that you can say, you know what? Let’s call Lee. And and it’s just part of that system in terms of I’m available. So like I’m booking myself for that call, and I’m available if needed so that I can jump on the call immediately. So it looks like it’s a hey, that’d be great if we got Lee’s input. And then you’re like, let me text him. And then I jump on the call so it doesn’t turn into a fourth. Let’s logistically, you know, try to schedule a fourth conversation. It just becomes part of the third conversation.

James Castleberry: So I love that. And I’ll tell you why. And then I’ll get both your thoughts on it. But I love that because part of building trust is that visibility and that availability. And you guys are partners supporting this new client and and them knowing it’s sort of like having an open door policy that you can use in real time.

Stone Payton: And choose not to use if, if, if.

James Castleberry: Circumstances don’t if you don’t need.

Stone Payton: It. Right, right, right right, right. Okay.

James Castleberry: What do you think.

Stone Payton: Well, at first I was.

Lee Kantor: I well I think it’s about trying to shrink this, like like you said, um, uh, James, about the. This feels like an inner. Now, I got to go to a fourth conversation with these people, like I, you know, I just was on a show, like, what’s happening here? So if they’ve already agreed to three, let’s see if we how much stuff we can squeeze in those three. Um, and this might be the thing that puts him over the edge because to your point about this shows how important this is. We’re demonstrating. Oh, this is important. I’m going to call my partner. He’s going to jump on the phone right now on camera, uh, to, uh, you know, continue this conversation that is elevating the importance and demonstrating that we’re, you know, delivering on what we’re promising. I.

James Castleberry: I think I think toward building trust. Y’all see how that can be? If it was you and you were about to join with someone and you’re having a conversation? You said. And someone just tells you, well, let me get him on the phone. And, uh, and, you know, this is important to to all of us. So. So let me get on as far as your trust, as far as your personal connection with the people that you’re about to go into business with. Uh, how do you think that would feel for you?

Stone Payton: Well, now that we’ve talked it through, I feel like I think it would feel good when when when the idea first surfaced a few moments ago, it felt a little bit like, um, a little bit of trickery or subterfuge or like, misdirection. But it’s not if legitimately Lee is scheduled for that time. And at some point in the conversation, based on the conversation, I make the decision to bring Lee in, you know? So so I’m feeling better about it now. Yeah.

Lee Kantor: How would you feel, James, if that happened? It.

James Castleberry: No. So so I think, you know, I think I’d feel good about it. I think I’d be like, okay, they’re dedicated. They’re working with me. We’re problem solving together. Uh, you’re already starting to team at that moment. Uh, and you’re demonstrating, uh, again, in a virtual environment, it’s more difficult. And so, you know, I’m studying some of the cues that are different in a virtual environment because you can’t feel that emotion like you can in person. You can’t feel that a person is at ease, you can’t feel tension if something’s going the wrong way. But virtually, with that type of availability, well, let’s hop on a call. Let’s bring so and so in. We’re on the camera. Hey, I’m happy to help. What’s going on, guys? Um, that type of openness, that type of availability that that helps with trust, that helps with psychological safety, that helps build a team.

Lee Kantor: I mean, it’s definitely an experiment we should pursue. Yeah, I don’t see a negative of of trying this for the next handful.

Stone Payton: I don’t either, and we could do it in such a way that the it could be a calendar that is specifically for that type of call. It could be tied to your availability and mine. And then you would know because it’s on that colored calendar, you know, in your calendar it’s colored orange or something, whatever. And then you know that that you’re there doing your all your stuff. You always do. And I can text you and say, hey, join this call. And then other times I won’t text and you’ll be doing whatever, you know, um, back office stuff you’d be doing during that time anyway, right?

Lee Kantor: Right.

James Castleberry: And then some of it, uh, so so I think what I hear y’all saying is that it’s worth trying. I think, Lee, it goes right along with what you’ve said before about, um, getting to the nose because from each. No, it’s not as useful if you don’t learn anything. You know that sociology teaches us that, uh, it’s faster to the production line. If you bust a hundred, uh, cups or pots than it is to try to make the perfect one. And so that’s where we get this idea about hearing nos. Um, but from every pot that we break, we need to understand why it didn’t work for us. And so I think things like this, in learning from those nos, uh, and in, in building more interpersonal relationships, virtually being visible, um, being responsive, um, and coming at it from a, okay, this is what you’re really happy about, about the business. And so how can we use those things to make you more comfortable with those things that you might be more skeptical about in a, in an approach?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I’m I’m with you. I think this is definitely, Um. Um, a great next thing to experiment on.

James Castleberry: And I know this is this is not. And I know that, um, your systematic thinkers, one of you is a very systematic thinker. One of you is a big problem solver, but you both are high in optimism. And so you can be optimistic about trying the process, but also skeptical of of making a change to a process that you believe is working. Um, but what I think I’ve heard is that some of the challenges is not getting to closing.

Lee Kantor: I mean, I think some of our challenge is that we’re not in front of enough people, and the people that we have thus far are not evangelizing enough. So we’re not choosing the right people to be evangelists, and we’re not getting the volume of people to know about what we’re doing. That combination, I think, is what’s, um, kind of slowing down our growth to 100.

James Castleberry: Okay. So, um, to, to get to at least, um, you know, for our conversation today to get to one, one process that that maybe you could experiment with, uh, drawing on both your strengths and, and your challenge, individual challenges to try to help the business grow, uh, especially in this virtual environment where there are some challenges, even greater challenges. What is one thing that we could, um, we could grow, develop in our process, change a little bit that that we think might, uh, might yield a different result?

Stone Payton: Well, for me, Lee’s right about the other things he said. But within the context of this particular conversation, to me, an actionable set of steps is to is to rework the way we do Three relationship building moment three that that post-interview call where it’s tied to a calendar, where Lee’s going to be doing office work or whatever anyway, he’s going to and and I may even say something in my pre-call we’ll see. I might adjust that a little bit, but in that call and then make it where it’s organic, perfectly appropriate when it’s when it makes sense to bring Lee into that conversation. If it starts to go down, you know the desired path with somebody we think we might want to work with.

James Castleberry: Yeah, even the name of the call was relationship building. Right. And so this is where drawing on that, that interpersonal relationship, um, and, and then building trust virtually by being available, being visible, uh, anything that we could do that would contribute to that when, when you get, um, a hint of and I’ll ask this question and I’ll continue a thought. Did you all share your results with one another? Did you want to?

Stone Payton: We did like, vaguely, but like I didn’t send him my report. I don’t think he didn’t send me his. But we we talked about it a little bit like the high, the high points. And we probably will put it, put them both in a shared folder. But no we really hadn’t.

James Castleberry: Okay. So so if you’re thinking about targeting that rbm3, uh, and the first two words are relationship building, think about your emotional intelligence results and what you’re both strong at and where you both may have challenges so that y’all can leverage that with this client. That may have questions.

Stone Payton: Right. And again, some of that, yes, we should definitely put some planning and forethought in it. And based on our history together, especially in the olden days when we were together in a studio, uh, some of that might be a little bit like riding a bike. We, we, we were able to do that pretty darn effectively back in the day, weren’t we?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I mean, that’s one of I think the thing that makes us a good team is that we complement our strengths and weaknesses.

James Castleberry: So I definitely see that. I could see that, y’all. Uh, as far as, uh, business partners, as far as going forward, I can see the balance. And, you know, we talked about achieving balance, being what was most important. And so if you put both of your, uh, reports together, y’all achieve a great deal of balance here. Um, like my wife and I, you know, having perfect sight, you know, mine being, uh, farther away, hers being shorter. Uh, and so this could be a part of the business that that, uh, that could, could take you farther. Um, and, uh, just by doing what you used to do, uh, and do. Well, and that you actually enjoyed, y’all. Yeah, yeah. What do you think?

Stone Payton: I like.

Lee Kantor: It. Yeah, I think it’s definitely, um, a great outcome for this call. And thank you so much for being part of it. And, James, if somebody wants to learn more about your practice or, um, do you have a website, is there a best way to connect?

James Castleberry: Yeah, it’s really simple. Uh, it’s a leader e a emotional intelligence is AI, but the website is leader e.com, and all of my information is there. We, uh, we help, uh, businesses, uh, we do team workshops, we do executive coaching. And I’m also able to certify people in emotional intelligence tools.

Stone Payton: Well, James, you have definitely lived up to your advance press. Man, thank you so much for investing the time and energy to work with us. I’m sure we’ll get a chance to talk quite a bit more, but, uh, we can’t thank you enough. Man, this has been fantastic.

James Castleberry: No, no, thank you for having me. I sure appreciate being here. And I know, uh, I can tell already that the, uh, the wheels are turning and how y’all might be able to, uh, at least go after this. Uh, rbm3 goal. I can’t wait to hear how it works out.

Stone Payton: Well, we will definitely keep you posted, man. Thanks again.

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