Intro: [00:00:05] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for GWBC Radio, conversations to grow your business. Now, here’s your host, Roz Lewis.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:25] Lee Kantor here, another episode of GWBC Radio, conversations to grow your business. Today, I’m joined with Roz Lewis with the GWBC and Susan Gravely with Gravely & Associates. So, we’re going to talk about an important topic, business insurance, are you covered in a crisis? Welcome, Roz.

Roz Lewis: [00:00:45] Good morning, Lee. And good morning, Stone. You know, there’s always that person that’s behind the scenes, that we have to make sure we give some visibility to, and hope both of you all are doing good, and most importantly, that you’re healthy.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:01] Yeah. So far, so good.

Roz Lewis: [00:01:04] So, thanks. Good. Good. I am glad to hear this. You know, this is truly unprecedented times, you know, that we’re living in right now and experiencing these days, battling the coronavirus, COVID-19. Who thought we would be constantly saying, you know, those words? I know that some of you all are saying that this is an invisible enemy that we’re fighting, but I really prefer to say that it’s very visible.

Roz Lewis: [00:01:04] And we see it every day in the news cycle with people who have the illness and the front-line hospital staff, the medical professionals and the suppliers, the government leaders who are trying to combat this every hour and every day, and our corporate leaders as well. So, quite frankly, we’re all in this together. And it is going to take a united front in order to combat all of this. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed, Lee, but I will tell you, here at the Greater Women’s Business Council, we’re really experiencing seeing the true test of the supply chain, you know, of the needed items, you know, to support fighting this pandemic.

Roz Lewis: [00:02:23] So, we’re reaching out to our women businesses, you know, for their supplies, you know, for corporate and government requests. I mean, I sent a list last night. For some reason, midnight is usually my time to be sending these lists from requests because requests come in as late as that. You know, just trying to get personal protective equipment. And there’s such a limited inventory in the supply chain right now, but our suppliers are given lead times of about four to six weeks on it.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:56] Well, I agree with you. This is a time where the public entities and the private entities are going to have to work together to solve this problem, like historically we have in this country, you know, over the decades and over the centuries that we’ve been around. So, we’re usually pretty good in a crisis. So, I’m pretty bullish on America and our abilities to work together and rise up to solve this challenge that we’re all in. And today is an important day for us because we’re going to be trying to help our business leaders navigate this water and we’re going to cover a topic, business insurance, that a lot of people maybe weren’t paying attention to, but they better be paying attention to today. Don’t you agree, Roz?

Roz Lewis: [00:03:41] Oh, I definitely agree. And, you know, too often we say, you know, we pay premiums, we pay all this money for insurance, but it is literally just for that purpose. It is when you need it. It is there in a crisis when you’re having to focus on so many other things, you know, that is your backup. But as the saying goes, too, with your insurance policies, the devil is in the details, right? And so, it is having an understanding of what’s in your policy, what is truly covered and what is not covered. So, we’re very fortunate today to have with us, Susan Gravely of Gravely & Associates.

Roz Lewis: [00:04:22] And we’re welcoming her back, when we talked about insurance earlier this year with her. And so, people were not in the same frame of mind to listen to some of the information she probably had to say. And hopefully, they are today, to really be proactive as to how we’re going to move forward. So, it depends on what your policy say, you know, today as to whether or not they will be effective for you. But even if they’re not, it’s, how do you plan for the future? How do we do that? So, you know, Susan, welcome to the show.

Susan Gravely: [00:04:57] Thank you.

Roz Lewis: [00:04:57] We’re very happy to have you. And let’s get right to it because I know these businesses owners, you know, have been seeking a lot of assistance from their insurance plan. And in some areas, they’re probably getting a little surprise about what’s covered and what’s not? So, you know, let me start by asking you what approach have you seen, you know, from the insurance carriers, you know, that you represent as it relates specifically, you know, to the coronavirus?

Susan Gravely: [00:05:31] Well, that’s a great question. And Roz, Lee, and Stone, thank you so much for having me back on the show. I really appreciate the opportunity. And I appreciate the opportunity to reach out to our women and businesses and discuss this, and hopefully answer some questions, and maybe like some fears to rest, too. So, first of all, what we are seeing, I am getting inundated with emails and/or phone calls from our insurance carriers on a daily basis.

Susan Gravely: [00:06:01] They’re posting on their websites. They are sending emails to agencies and brokers concerning the health and welfare of, of course, their employees, their client, which would be their policyholders, and the interactions with all aspects of their respective communities. And the general consensus is, of course, they are referring everyone to the CDC website. They want to make sure that you, as a business owner, if you are working from home and/or maybe working within your business, that you are practicing and following those guidelines based on that area of concern impacting your business and community.

Susan Gravely: [00:06:38] You know, the hand-washing, the social distancing, the antibacterial, all of those things are coming into play, and they are really pushing that agenda so that we can weather this crisis and everyone can get back to work and get back to normal. So, we are seeing that and we are also seeing some specific information coming from these insurance carriers as to how a business owners’ property, casualty and worker’s compensation apply to the impact that the coronavirus might have on your business and your employees. So, I’m seeing that every single day from these insurance carriers.

Roz Lewis: [00:07:20] Well, if that’s the case, you know, is the business income, interruption, coverage included in most policies? What about the property insurance language as it relates to the coronavirus?

Susan Gravely: [00:07:33] That’s a great question. And basically, that’s where your policy starts, it’s under the property coverage. Most policies do have some form of business interruption and/or business income coverage. But it is triggered by an actual loss, physical loss to your property that is insured. So, if you look at the policy itself—and these policies are written, the policy forms are written by the insurance services office. Okay. So, that is a national organization that actually drafts these policy forms.

Susan Gravely: [00:08:12] And then, your respective insurance carrier adopts those forms. And then, they can, in turn, either limit coverage or they can enhance coverage based on what the industry they are insuring. Okay. So, every policy is different, but it starts with the same basis from these ISO, insurance services office policy forms. So, if you look at the property language under this, areas of coverage or covered property, which your buildings, business, personal property, things of that nature.

Susan Gravely: [00:08:49] You have to have an actual physical loss to the building. And I’m talking about, it could be anything from a fire to, you know, vandalism, to anything along those lines that cause an actual physical loss to your property for that coverage to apply. And if you have an actual physical loss that is sudden and accidental in nature to that physical property, then your business interruption and/or your business income coverage is triggered.

Susan Gravely: [00:09:25] Unfortunately, with a situation that we’re in right now, your physical property, your building can still be occupied. There is not a physical loss that inhibits you from occupying that property. And this is a virus. And typically, what we see, there is an insurance form called the CPO140, which is an absolute exclusion for loss due to virus and/or bacteria. And you can look in your policy form. Your agent should be able to give you that information.

Susan Gravely: [00:10:02] And that form has been on these policies since 2006. Of course, we haven’t had an issue with this up until now. If you think about, the coronavirus is a virus, but the flu is also a virus. Have we ever closed because of the flu? No, we haven’t. Not really. Not to this extent. So, this is a new territory for insurance policy holders, insurance carriers. So, we are trying to navigate those waters with our clients the best way that we can.

Roz Lewis: [00:10:39] So, you’re saying that basically, with the civil authority and the mandatory closings, this is really not covered, you know, under any of the income or interruption coverage? Well, how does that affect it or it doesn’t?

Susan Gravely: [00:10:53] That is true because it does, even if you’re close by civil authority. Typically, civil authority closes you for, and I’ll read the explanation, the business income or extra expense, and there is no physical loss and/or damage to the property by covered cost of loss. Again, you have to have direct physical damage to the property. So, let’s take, for instance, you know, if your building burns or your building is partially burned and the government comes in or your county comes in and says, “Okay, you’ve got to close the entire building”, and you could house law offices, doctor’s offices, you know, multiple offices in that building, but it’s not accessible because of that fire. Well, then you’re closed by civil authority, you have an actual physical loss to the property, then your business interruption and/or your business income coverage would apply.

Roz Lewis: [00:11:52] I was going to ask, you know, because you just mentioned doctor’s offices, you know, and quite frankly, under the status that we are today, is all hands on deck, you know, for health care professionals, but it doesn’t even apply to businesses such as those medical facilities?

Susan Gravely: [00:12:13] Well, remember what I talked about and, you know, when we started talking about this, there are policy forms for certain industries that give you back coverage and under you, as a non-profit organization, would not purchase a medical office insurance policy because you’re not a medical office.

Roz Lewis: [00:12:34] Right.

Susan Gravely: [00:12:35] Okay. So, given that information, there could be subsequent coverage that is given back under a medical office insurance policy that you wouldn’t see in a retail policy. You know, if someone’s running a retail business, and I’ll take another example, restaurants are suffering terribly right now because a lot of them, if they walk in, they’d been closed. Okay. Groceries are still open, but restaurant, by and large, if you walk in, are closed.

Susan Gravely: [00:13:09] Well, given that, under a restaurant policy, under some insurance, some policies that I represent, there is coverage afforded under that policy for virus and/or bacteria contamination, but it’s a limited amount, but it refers back to, again, it’s a restaurant, whereas, you know, something could happen as far as some type of virus and/or bacteria could be transmitted by an employee into the food or into the environment that causes you to close.

Susan Gravely: [00:13:47] Okay. So, again, I think what you have to do is you have to reach out to your insurance agent. You have to have this conversation with them. They need to come back to you and say, “Here are the policy forms. This is what you have. This is what we see”, you know. And then, you go from there. Again, these are not hard and fast rules, but I’m just saying that most policies are going to have some type of an exclusion for virus and/or bacteria under their policy. But that doesn’t mean they’re not going to have a giveback if it’s a certain industry.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:27] Yeah, I mean, this is one of those situations where by having a good relationship with your insurance provider, then you will probably be able to deal with this a lot better than the person who doesn’t really have a good relationship, and they don’t know what’s in their policy and what’s not in their policy. So, this is a good case for future insurance people to make sure that their clients know what they got and what they don’t have. And we appreciate, Susan, for sharing this information. But, Susan, when it comes to, you mentioned employees, how does that come into play?

Lee Kantor: [00:15:02] Like you mentioned, a lot of retail, anybody that’s dealing with the public has different rules now, that the government is saying that these are the rules. It’s not like a storm didn’t cause the problem, I’m not saying the government caused the problem, but the government said you can’t have dining in the restaurant anymore, you can’t have more than 10 people in the space anymore. Because of that, how does that kind of trickle down to these employees that maybe now are out of work or maybe they got the virus now and they want to kind of apply for workman’s comp or something like that?

Susan Gravely: [00:15:37] That’s a great question. And worker’s compensation, of course, is a different animal altogether. And I use that term loosely because worker’s comp provides payments to injured workers without regard to who was in fault at an accident or for time lost from work or medical and rehab services. It also provides coverage for work-related illnesses, as well as providing death benefits to surviving spouses and dependents. Each state has different laws governing the amount that is paid out and the duration of the lost income benefits.

Susan Gravely: [00:16:14] So, first of all, you got check with your state to see what those requirements are. Second of all, it is possible for an employee to file a work comp claim related to the coronavirus. The claim is going to be investigated and evaluated based on the facts and the circumstances surrounding the incident, but you’ve got to keep in mind that the work comp system is not the appropriate starting point for the coronavirus concerns, testing and treatment.

Susan Gravely: [00:16:43] You want to go to your medical provider. And right now, I’ve looked it up on all three insurance commissioner’s websites for Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina, and they are waiving those fees that might be associated with the testing opportunities that you have. In other words, you’re not going to be charged through your health insurance carrier to get tested, which is a good thing. So, that’s been waived. But you need to find out, first of all, if you had it, if you’ve contracted it at work, you know, and that’s where it originated, then there could possibly be coverage for you under the worker’s compensation statutes by law.

Susan Gravely: [00:17:28] But each claim is going to be investigated and it’s going to be investigated and judged on its merits. So, that information has got to be sent directly to the work comp carrier. And what I’m telling my clients is, “Let’s air on the side of caution. You know, if you have an employee that has tested positive, file the work comp claim, you know, and then make sure that the rest of your employees are quarantined for the 14-day period, and then you go from there. But each client is going to have to be judged on its own merit.

Susan Gravely: [00:18:06] And that’s not up to your insurance agent, it’s up to the work comp carrier. So, the more information you can provide for them about your work environment, you know, your industry has a lot to do with it. I mean, the medical care professionals right now, they are very susceptible. Hospitals are, doctor’s offices, you know, that type of thing. So, we’re going to see some more comp claims that are going to come out of this, and we’re going to see some work comp claims that are compensable out of this, for worker’s compensation. But again, it’s going to be judged on individual basis.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:40] Right. And then, this is one of those situations where you’re suggesting it’s better to air on kind of submitting this earlier than kind of waiting on things once-

Susan Gravely: [00:18:52] Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m telling my clients, and I would think that for the most part, most insurance agents are doing this because we are in unchartered waters. We’re in this boat ride along with our policyholders. We are. And we’re trying to air on the side of caution. And I’m telling my clients, even though you may have these exclusions under your property and business interruption policies, okay, you may have these exclusions.

Susan Gravely: [00:19:24] Even if you do, we are telling our clients, “We’re going to submit a claim on your behalf.” Keep up with your information if you have to downsize, if you lose revenue because of this, if you lose contracts because of this, compare what you were doing this time last year to this year at the same period of time. Keep all of that documentation. We will file that claim. And what the insurance carriers are doing is they are going to investigate each claim on its merit.

Susan Gravely: [00:19:56] Okay. And that’s not a call your agent needs to make. It’s the call that the carrier needs to make. And we really don’t know what’s going to come down the pike from the federal government or the state government level. We don’t know if they are going to say, we want these insurance carriers to do X, Y and Z. We don’t know that yet. So, we’re saying, let’s file it and let the insurance carrier determine if there is liability, I mean, if there is coverage there.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:30] Yeah, Roz. This is so important. This was so serendipitous that we covered a business insurance just a few months ago. So, I hope that the listeners took us up on that suggestion to get with their insurance provider to make sure that they were getting good information and good advice, not that anybody could have anticipated this, but having solid business insurance and having a solid business insurance expert on your team is critical for any growing business. Don’t you agree, Roz.

Roz Lewis: [00:21:00] Oh, I do. And Susan, you know, one of the things you mentioned was about what was happening at the state levels regarding insurance commissioners. And I know you and I have talked about even some legislation that may be taking place. Can you speak to that? You know, can you share that with a listening audience? It is not necessarily here in our region, in the state of Georgia, you know, North Carolina, South Carolina, but it could be a paradigm shift, a tipping point as the way insurance companies are going to start looking at pandemics such as this one.

Susan Gravely: [00:21:42] Okay. Sure. I’ll be glad to. First of all, let me just address because I did go through the websites for the insurance commissioner’s office in Georgia, North and South Carolina. And the insurance commissioner office in Georgia has issued a directive to all insurance carriers to stop all notices of cancellation for nonpayment of premium, to defer payments for insurance monthly premiums. If you’re paying monthly or whatever for 60 days, the sign for payment of audits.

Susan Gravely: [00:22:17] So, basically, the insurance commissioner’s office in Georgia has taken a pretty tough stand on this, not that I have not seen insurance carriers complying with that, they actually came out with this a little bit before what I saw from the insurance commissioner’s office. But South Carolina, they haven’t issued a directive, but they have basically issued a bulletin saying that they want to see insurance carriers extend premium payment deadlines, additional times before non-renewals and cancellations become effective, things of that nature, and then also suspending all payments for health insurance.

Susan Gravely: [00:22:59] Right now, you’re not allowed to cancel health insurance for nonpayment. So, they deferred those for 60 days as well. And North Carolina is also following suit. They have basically issued it as a suggestion to relax due dates for premium payments, extend grace period, waive like fees and penalties, allow payment plans for premium payments to otherwise avoid a lapse in coverage. These are suggestions, but I don’t know of an insurance carrier that is not following this protocol right now. So, insurance carriers are doing everything they can possibly do in this short-term interim period to alleviate the financial stress for these business owners and for individuals as well.

Susan Gravely: [00:23:45] So, that’s a good thing. We might see—we’re seeing right now in New Jersey, they have pending legislation to basically forego this absolute virus, bacteria exclusions so that business interruption will apply to policyholders in New Jersey. Now, whether that passes or not, I can’t speak to that, but that has come out. So, we may be seeing some other states following suit on that, we just don’t know. I mean, it’s kind of a, you know, open can of worms right now. And I think what is going to happen is that we’re going to see the states working closely with the insurance carriers that are licensed to do business in their states in trying to mitigate the situation and find a way through this.

Roz Lewis: [00:24:40] And just to be clear, you’re saying that if the legislation passes in New Jersey, that is specific to those carriers, even though their national carriers, to honor those policies just in New Jersey.

Susan Gravely: [00:24:54] Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, as you and I spoke on the phone yesterday, that could be argued through the Supreme Court. The state Supreme Court, and then own up to the Supreme Court, depending on the insurance carriers approached to this, and if it passes. So, we just don’t know yet. But there is legislation out there right now. So, that’s kind of unprecedented, too. But we saw a lot of this, we saw a paradigm shift post-9/11 in the insurance carrier’s approach to paying terrorism claims.

Susan Gravely: [00:25:32] And subsequently, out of that, came that national terrorism coverage that we got through the federal government. We could see something along those lines. We just don’t know. This is all so new. But I promise you, there are a lot of people thinking about this along these lines. And we’re going to see a paradigm shift after this crisis is over because it will absolutely be addressed again, either on the federal and/or state levels.

Roz Lewis: [00:26:03] So, what do you think businesses should be asking their insurance agents right now, you know, about their programs and more respective to concerning the coronavirus, but just even overall, what should they be asking their insurance agents now?

Susan Gravely: [00:26:25] Well, the questions I’m getting are what we basically talked about.

Roz Lewis: [00:26:29] Okay.

Susan Gravely: [00:26:29] And as I told you yesterday on the phone, I’m talking a lot of people off the ledge right now. People are in a panic mode, and they’re afraid that they’re going to lose their livelihood. And I am telling our clients, we’re going to do everything we can to help mitigate the situation. We are all in this boat together. And all we can do as agents is to educate you. And going forward, you know, just like asking, I mean, I spent half the day yesterday with insurance carriers on the phone or email asking for, you know, deferred payments for my clients because some of these that are paying monthly installments are not in business right now. Their doors are closed. And so, they have no income coming in. As an agent, our duty to our client is to do whatever we can to help mitigate this and navigate this situation for them so that we can come out on the other side. And I think that’s all we can do right now.

Roz Lewis: [00:27:35] Well, in mentioning about, you know, even the legislation that could possibly take place, now is the time for business owners to come together and talk to their prospective legislators in each state, you know, about this, start getting this conversation going.

Susan Gravely: [00:27:54] Absolutely. It absolutely needs to have that conversation. And we’re going to see some changes come out of this. There’s just no doubt in my mind about that. What those changes will be remains to be seen, but I do know post-9/11, we had a lot of insurance carriers and we had a lot of professionals that were involved, you know, on the private sector side, on the government side, working together to determine how are we going to address this situation if and when it ever happens in the future? Well, guess what? The same thing is going to happen with this because this is unprecedented. We’ve never seen anything like this before. I don’t ever remember seeing anything like this before.

Roz Lewis: [00:28:38] Well, surely not in our lifetime. What about you, Lee? I mean, I don’t think this is, you know, the first time we have experienced something on this magnitude. You know, you could say that we’ve experienced it on this magnitude and the impact, economically, you know, from the health, as well as an economic impact that it’s had, you know, on not just our country, but if you think about globally, the world, you know, because everyone is being impacted, you know, by this coronavirus.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:10] This is a situation that is unprecedented globally, obviously, in our lifetime. Historically, there’s been pandemics before, global pandemics before. We just don’t remember. And we survived and people survived. And some people did better than others. And I think this is one of the great values of the members for the GWBC. You’re equipping them with the brain trust they need and the trusted advisers that they need in order to handle these kinds of crises and to navigate the waters and to come out better at the end of the day on the other side of this.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:49] So, this is really another testament to the work that you’re doing, Roz, with GWBC to help your members kind of be prepared for these things. Now, no one could have anticipated this, maybe, but there are crises that happen periodically, and you have to be ready for them, and you’re giving them the information they need to really get through this, which I’m sure the vast majority will get through this.

Roz Lewis: [00:30:12] Yeah.

Lee Kantor: [00:30:12] So, that’s important work that you’re doing and, Susan, you’re doing as well in terms of educating us on how to, you know, kind of get the most out of our relationship with our insurance person and to really make sure that they’re helping us during this time of need.

Susan Gravely: [00:30:29] Thank you for that.

Roz Lewis: [00:30:30] Exactly.

Susan Gravely: [00:30:30] And that’s what we want to do. If I relayed anything during this radio broadcast, I want the listeners to realize that they need to call on their insurance agent. Their insurance agent is their advocate in this situation. So, please look to them for advice and look to them for information based on, you know, who you’re insured with. There is information coming out every single day from every single carrier I work with.

Susan Gravely: [00:31:04] And it’s very good, it’s very useful information. I’m passing that information directly along to these clients. And, you know, again, we’re all in this together. We’re in this boat. We’ve got to weather the storm. And your insurance agent is your advocate, so look to them. If you need help with those premiums, if you need help with something, look to them for this because these insurance carriers are out here, they want to work with their clients. They want to work with their policyholders. And your insurance agent is your go-between, you, as a policyholder, and your insurance carrier.

Roz Lewis: [00:31:43] Susan, thank you so much. I mean, I appreciate and we appreciate all that you’ve done today in sharing this information with our listening audience, you know, on how to navigate through this insurance maze and for our businesses to understand this is a part of your value chain. You know, this is one of the ways that you, right now, we know we’re in the midst of this, but we also need to look at some proactive measures as well as to how we’re going to mitigate this going forward and understanding how to protect your business going forward.

Roz Lewis: [00:32:25] So, we’re just encouraging our listening audience, you know, to stay engaged, you know, with us so we can all unite and be stronger out of this challenge that we’re facing because together, it’s how we’re going to be able to do it. You know, united is how we’re going to be able to do that and just not lean on, as Susan said, your agents talk to each other because you may have some best practices that you may be able to share as well, you know, of navigating through this as leaders. And too often, sometimes, we constantly talked about the business, but it’s the leaders of those businesses that also need that support as well and that mental break, you know, so that you can make good decisions. So, you know, one of the things-

Susan Gravely: [00:33:15] Absolutely.

Roz Lewis: [00:33:15] Yes. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, Susan Gravely of Gravely & Associates, you know, is advocating out there for her clients. I mean, she is a great resource of information as it relates to this. She’s constantly on the front lines. And this is not just during a crisis like this. She does this every day as hopefully your insurance agents are doing that for you every day.

Susan Gravely: [00:33:45] Well, thank you, Roz. I appreciate that.

Lee Kantor: [00:33:47] I just want to make sure that Susan gets a chance to get her website out there for anybody who wants to contact her.

Susan Gravely: [00:33:53] Oh, okay. It’s www.gravely, G-R-A-V-E-L-Y, and, A-N-D, associates, A-S-S-O-C-I-A-T-E-S, .com.

Roz Lewis: [00:34:09] And one of the things I will say, thank you. You want to repeat that one more time?

Susan Gravely: [00:34:13] It is www.gravely, G-R-A-V-E-L-Y, and, A-N-D, associates, A-S-S-O-C-I-A-T-E-S, .com.

Roz Lewis: [00:34:29] Thank you, Susan.

Susan Gravely: [00:34:31] You’re welcome.

Roz Lewis: [00:34:32] And you can also visit our website at gwbc.org. Check out our special web page on coronavirus. And what it is, is how to help businesses navigate through this crisis. There are six tiles there that you’re going to be able to click on to get links to information, including two links to Susan’s comments, to Susan Gravely’s comments that are also on our website of information that she has provided us as well regarding insurance. So, we encourage you to continue to stay strong. We encourage you to continue to have faith. We encourage you to continue to have hope. And we encourage you to continue to lead through this as we move forward. Because remember, nothing is impossible. And the word itself says, I am possible. And that’s by Audrey Hepburn. So, that was my parting thought for today’s show. Lee?

Lee Kantor: [00:35:38] Well, thank you, Roz and Susan, for being part of the show today. It’s so important information. And remember, this is why you’re a member of GWBC, is the power of the network. And to let you lean on the leadership that are part of the team and all of the people that are the thought leaders that they have in their network to help you navigate these rough waters. Thank you again, Roz. And the website for GWBC is gwbc.org and Gravely & Associates as gravelyandassociates.com. And this is Lee Kantor for Roz, Susan and Stone Payton. We will see you all next time on GWBC Radio.