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Carol Urton With Carol Urton Coaching & Consulting

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Carol Urton With Carol Urton Coaching & Consulting
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, host Lee Kantor talks with Carol Urton, CEO of Carol Urton Coaching and Consulting. Carol discusses her journey from corporate life to becoming an energy leadership coach and team strategy consultant. She explains the concept of energy leadership, the difference between coaching and consulting, and how tools like the Energy Leadership Index Assessment help individuals and teams shift to more productive energy states. Carol shares practical examples and insights on reframing challenges, fostering collaboration, and transforming adversity into opportunities for growth and innovation.

Carol Urton, ACC, ELI-MP, Certified Professional Coach Author & Speaker and CEO of Carol Urton Coaching & Consulting.

She is a dynamic and accomplished professional with over 40 years of experience in both the corporate and nonprofit sectors. Before transitioning to her full-time coaching and consulting practice in 2024, she served for 10 years as the Senior Director of Corporate Responsibility for a major global organization.

Renowned as a trusted leader and innovator, she has dedicated her career to empowering individuals and organizations to reach their full potential. As a certified professional coach, author, and speaker, she combines her expertise with her passion for inspiring others to lead an epic life filled with significant and transformative moments.

Her holistic approach to personal and professional development is grounded in her mastery of the Energy Leadership Index Assessment®, enabling her to assist clients in uncovering the energy patterns that drive their success. She holds an ACC and is accredited by the International Coaching Federation (ICF).

She is also a highly sought-after speaker and facilitator. She delivers impactful keynotes, webinars, and workshops on growth mindset, energy leadership, and overcoming barriers to success. Her thought leadership is shared weekly through LinkedIn articles, where she provides insights tailored to leaders and professionals seeking growth.

Her diverse career reflects her dedication to combating ageism, fostering inclusion, overcoming childhood trauma, and empowering others to reinvent themselves in the face of life’s challenges.

She is currently working on her upcoming book, The Lemon Myth: Knowing When to Stop Trying to Make Lemonade and Reinvent Your Life, which delves into the art of personal and professional transformation, highlighting themes of joy, fun, and resilience.

As a triathlete, she understands the mental stamina required to achieve monumental goals, even those that seem impossible or merely a dream. She applies the same determination to her coaching practice. Her services are essential for leaders, professionals, and those navigating pivotal moments in their lives. Her tagline, “Let’s work on your tomorrow… today!” reflects her proactive and results-oriented philosophy.

Connect with Carol on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • What inspired Carol to pivot into coaching and consulting, and how that decision changed her life
  • Energy Leadership and the Energy Leadership Index Assessment
  • Most common challenges high performers face today

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Carol Urton, who is the CEO of Carol Urton Coaching and Consulting. Welcome.

Carol Urton: Thank you for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your firm. How are you serving folks?

Carol Urton: Well, I am an energy leadership coach, a team strategy consultant. I’m also an author and a speaker, and so I have many different ways to reach my audiences with the information and help that they need or want.

Lee Kantor: So let’s talk a little bit about energy leadership. And can you explain that? I’ve never heard that term before.

Carol Urton: Yeah. So it’s a framework that was developed by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching. And we really take a look at energy. And it’s not the energy that you use to run down the street. It’s more of mental energy where you’re spending it, how you’re spending it and where you resonate most of the day. And so it’s really based on, you know, we all have a way that we look at the world, the lens in which we view things just based on the current circumstances that you’re in, or just background information, things that you’ve experienced during life. And I can give you some examples of those in a bit. But, you know, we all resonate at a certain level most of the time. And then when we hit some sort of stressor, we can really drop down into lower energy levels. So it’s based on anabolic and catabolic energy. Catabolic energy is very high stress, cortisol, adrenaline producing energy. And that is something that people operate in a lot. It’s not sustainable. Um, I like to explain it. If if you’re being chased by a lion, you need a lot of, uh, that type of energy to run and get away. But it’s not sustainable. You can’t keep running that way for long periods of time. And then anabolic energy is more of a building up, uh, energetic, uh, growth type hormone energy that we operate in when we’re in more of a visionary, problem solving, innovative, uh, type of energy.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How did you get involved in this line of work?

Carol Urton: Yeah, so I got involved. I was in the corporate world for many, many years and was at my current corporate job. I just left that a year ago in August to pursue my coaching practice full time, so I’ve been building that on the side for about three years, and I really was operating in some of those lower energy levels. There was a lot of stress. There was a lot of, uh, resources that weren’t being provided for my team. And so I found myself in a time where my attitude was kind of not great, and I didn’t like that. So I signed up for a coaching program and realized once I got into that, how helpful it was and how I had actually, most of my life been coaching and mentoring people and really wanted to have a specific framework to do that in. And so I went ahead and got certified as a coach and have continued my training, uh, ever since. And so it’s been really great because everything throughout my life, uh, from, I’m going to say, from birth until now has led me to this point where I really have found my purpose and the calling that I believe I was put on this earth for.

Lee Kantor: So your first foray, foray into coaching was being coached. Is that what you said?

Carol Urton: Yes, that is correct.

Lee Kantor: So then through going through that process, that was kind of the aha moment of, hey, I am doing a lot of these things or this really resonates with me, how this interaction is going. And then you thought, well, maybe I can pivot into coaching.

Carol Urton: Absolutely. In fact, you know, I was being coached. I’m like, boy, I really want to be on the other side of the desk. So I, you know, talked with my coach about it and went ahead and, uh, you know, went through the training to, you know, really be and I did go through the Institute for Professional Excellence and Coaching. I think it’s one of the the best coaching schools out there. And so it has been very helpful in building this new career.

Lee Kantor: Now, in your firms, um, the name of your firm also includes consulting. How are you kind of discerning the difference of when the coaching ends and the consulting begins, and vice versa?

Carol Urton: Yeah, that’s a really good question. So, you know, in coaching we really, uh, walk alongside and you know, it’s similar but then it is different. So consulting is more going into an organization and taking a look at how they’re operating and giving specific, um, advice and guidance based on my knowledge and experience of being in the corporate world and also the nonprofit sector. I’ve done a lot of nonprofit work, and so that’s a little bit different. Uh, the coaching piece is more partnering with my clients to help them, uh, be the best that they can be, get from point A to point B, but it’s not directive. It is more exploring, uh, And asking the right questions to have them come to their own conclusion on understanding what they want and need to do and what they’re capable of. You know, a lot of us go through life and just need a little encouragement. We can do a lot more than we think we can do, and we’re much more talented and, and, uh, you know, capable than we think we are.

Lee Kantor: So what is your typical engagement? Do you start doing coaching and then the you’re working with a leader and they say, hey, you know, our whole organization might need some of this. And then it kind of bleeds into consulting. Or is it vice versa.

Carol Urton: Uh no. It’s pretty separate. So I will take on an engagement as a consultant. I do have certain clients that really want both. And so we, you know, we have a specific contract based around that. And we’re very clear on when we’re coaching and when we’re consulting. And so it can be a mixture, but the consultant piece generally is just going into an organization and helping them really get to where they need to be.

Lee Kantor: So when you’re working with individuals, um, what is that? What kind of work are you typically doing with that individual?

Carol Urton: Well, it’s mostly leadership. And most of my clients are, uh, high performing leaders. And, you know, with everyone out there these days, it seems like there is limited time and resources to get the job done. And so it’s really most of the time. The problem I see is people get burnt out, they get stressed. They they’re, you know, leading a lot of people. And there’s a lot of frustration within organizations in the current climate. And so it’s helping them be able to really find a path that will help them be successful, but also bring their people along to be successful. So, you know, I recently worked with an organization that, you know, there was a lot of change going on and people were not happy. And so it was really walking alongside this leader to come up with solutions to get the team going in the right direction altogether. One thing I do is I have an energy Leadership Index assessment that I can give leaders and teams, and so that was developed by IPCC again. And so this assessment really helps people see where they’re resonating on that energy, that energy level. So to to really work through that, when you take this assessment, it tells you where you operate most of the time. So let’s just say you are completely stuck. That’s going to be energy level one. You know you’re You don’t know what to do. You don’t know how to do it. You may be so stuck. You don’t even want to do anything. And so that, you know, is the lowest level of energy. And as you work your way up this energy scale, you know, level two is where a lot of these teams and organizations resonate.

Carol Urton: And that is frustration. Blaming other people for everything going wrong. And so there’s a lot of shifting of responsibility people. Not really. That’s that that very high adrenaline, cortisol energy. And you know, a lot of people can get a lot of stuff done in that energy level because they’re really cracking the whip and, you know, getting everybody in line. But again, it’s not sustainable. And people are just not happy. And so as you work your way up, uh, level three is more, uh, compromise tolerance. You know, this is just the way it’s always going to be. People kind of get stuck there. Level four is the energy level of service. And so a lot of people that I work with are in this service level of energy. And so nonprofits, um, you know, organizations that are trying to serve their clients in the community. And so the service piece is really important to them, and they get kind of stuck there, which isn’t a bad thing. But when you work up to the higher levels of level five, which is, you know, gifts and opportunities, you know, what are the opportunities in every situation. And then level six, more visionary, um, planning. So that’s where we want to get our leaders into the more visionary and planning. And you know, what are the gifts and opportunities, even if things aren’t going well and being able to work through that so they can actually lead their teams.

Lee Kantor: So when you learned about this energy leadership and the energy Leadership Index assessment. What part of that resonated with you is this? Or were you kind of, um, already intuitively, uh, learning and interested in energy and saw, uh, where energy kind of lags and where it can increase? Like, what drew you to energy leadership?

Carol Urton: Well, the thing that has really drawn me to this framework is, you know, we are all in control of our own energy. And, you know, when we talk about energy, it may sound a little woo woo, but it’s really just, you know, how we operate, how we walk through life. And so, you know, for example, if I wake up in the morning and everything’s going wrong and I want to blame my husband for it, you know, that’s a very level two energy. I don’t want to be there. I want to get into the more problem solving, solution oriented level. And when I realize that I’m there, I have the ability to shift into whatever level of energy I need to get the job done, and to live a more peaceful and and happy life. And so people really tend to get stuck in the complaining, the blame game, you know, all of that within organizations or even in life. And so to know that we don’t have to be there, that we can shift that. And that’s what this assessment does, is it really tells you, you know, where you resonate most of the time. So for me, normally I’m in a 5 or 6 level of energy, but if I come up across, you know, something that’s really stressful or something goes wrong, I can temporarily really drop down into the being just stuck. You know, I don’t know, I don’t know what to do. And I don’t know, I just kind of will shut down. And when I know that, then I know to reach out and get some help and, you know, shift into a different Mindset that is going to help me move forward.

Lee Kantor: Now, is that what happens during the coaching you? Once you give somebody this assessment and they learn kind of where their I guess their baseline is, and then you give them tools and skills in order to get out of that and move into the to another level.

Carol Urton: Absolutely. So again, like I said, a lot of my clients are in the level four, you know, level of service. And what happens when you’re so busy serving other people all the time. You can drop into those lower levels because you become burnout or resentful or angry that you know you’re trying to help everybody and they’re not taking your advice. They’re not following the directions. They come to you for help. You love helping people, and then, you know, nothing happens. And so they can get very focused so much on service, not only at work, but with their families and friends. And, you know, they’re always the person that’s coming to to aid everyone. And they can get a little stuck there where if they can mentally shift into, okay, you know, what do I need to do to look at the opportunities in these situations? How can I be a more visionary leader? So, you know, the level six energy of we call it the flow energy where I don’t know. You know, you go to work in the morning and you hit all the green lights, your work’s all getting done and your your projects are getting completed.

Carol Urton: Your calls are going great. You know, it’s just one of those days where you have this, this flow that’s going on that really helps you accomplish a lot. And then all of a sudden, you know, something comes out of the blue and you can get knocked right back down quickly. And so it’s very typical for all of us to move within these different levels. It’s just knowing how to use it and how to be able to again shift when you realize that that’s happening. So my clients use this kind of talk all the time. I mean, they really begin to understand how they can do so much more with just awareness of where they’re at. And so generally, what we do is we’ll do an energy leadership index assessment at the beginning of a coaching engagement, and then we do another one at the end. And then we see what that average resonating level of energy number is, because generally it will go up. And the higher that number, the more life satisfaction you’re really experiencing.

Lee Kantor: Now is there anything you could share? Well, say a person like you said, your typical client is at that service level and they’re they’re going about their business, everything’s fine. Then they boom, they’re up into that area of flow, that level six. And then, you know, just as quickly as they got to level six, something happened and now they’re maybe not for. Maybe they’re three now. Uh, are there any tools or anything you can share with our listener right now? Is there something you can do that once you have that awareness that you’ve shifted downward, that you can shift back upward?

Carol Urton: Sure. In fact, I can give you a real time, real life example of something that happened with me over the past couple of months and how I was able to use this, because I used this to for myself a lot. And so I was asked to speak at my local chamber of commerce to talk about my programs and what I do, and I was really excited about that. I now actually sit on the board of that chamber, but they had asked me to come in and they wanted me to bring some materials with me as well, so that they could pass them out during the meeting and also keep them at the chamber. And I’d been thinking about for quite a while, developing a brochure. So I thought, okay, this is a perfect opportunity. Level five. You know, it’s a great opportunity to get some work done that I haven’t been able to do yet. And so I set forth to create this brochure. I didn’t have a lot of time. So my meeting was on a Monday. They told me they wanted this on a Thursday. And so I had to really, you know, be speedy in getting this done. So I get the brochure done. It looks absolutely beautiful. I send it off to a quick printer that can get it delivered to me before this meeting is going to start. And I get it back and I open it up and lo and behold, I the first thing I see is a typo. And coming from the corporate world, I would never, ever pass out anything in a meeting with the typo. And so instantly I went from this level five, level six, you know, grade.

Carol Urton: I’m going to get this work done. I’ve got it done. I’m ready to go Ago immediately. I’m. I’m A1I am I am stuck, I am, I’m, you know, I’m just there’s nothing I can do here because I don’t have time to fix this situation. So then I immediately went into level two, you know, blaming. Right? I’m super frustrated. Why didn’t the printer catch this? You know, my husband didn’t have time to proof it for me. You know, I’ve got all these reasons why this typo wasn’t caught and corrected before I sent it to the printer. And then I’m going up the level. Level three. Well, there’s this is just the way it is. I’m going to have to just tolerate this situation and live with it. But then level four kicks in and I’m like, you know, this is something that was meant to help people to to explain what I do to, you know, help them with their businesses and their leadership skills. And so, you know, that service level kicked in and I thought it could still be useful. It could still be useful in this situation. And then I, uh, I decided, well, what is the gift and the opportunity here? So these brochures came with envelopes. And so I stuffed all the brochures and the envelopes. I took them to the meeting, I passed them out, and I asked the participants not to open the envelopes until I asked them to. So I’m explaining this energy level, uh, framework to them during this meeting. And so now I’m in level five and I say, you know, I’ve got a I’ve got a gift for you and an opportunity for me.

Carol Urton: I’m going to ask you all to open up the brochure. I told them there’s a typo. I asked them to read the brochure in. The first person to find the typo was going to get a free Energy Leadership Index assessment. And so man, they went. They were so excited. Everybody’s you know it accomplished a lot of things right. You know they’re reading the brochure. How many people actually read a whole brochure when you pass it out. And they’re excited because we’ve made it a fun activity. Somebody found the typo and we’re now all in level six because we are working together. There’s a lot of synergy. People are having fun. We’re accomplishing something. And so you can imagine when I left that meeting, I am now in level seven that we haven’t talked about. And that is the level of just absolute pure joy and passion and knowing that I’ve accomplished something and all of a sudden, you know, I’m I’m no longer judging myself for this mistake that’s been made. And that’s one thing that we haven’t really talked about here is that, you know, with each of these levels of energy, judgment becomes less as you go up the scale. So if you’re in level one, there’s heavy judgment of yourself and others. And the higher you go up the scale, the less judgment there is. And if we’re operating without worrying about our performance or, you know, judging other people, we really open up the possibilities to, uh, have new, uh, new opportunities and energy and just, you know, the the possibilities are unlimited.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And it it sounds that and that’s a great lesson that you were able to take something that you at one point perceived as a negative. And now it became kind of an Easter egg hunt. It was a fun workshop that got more people got, uh, enjoyment and understanding, a deeper understanding of what you do. You demonstrated it and it came alive.

Carol Urton: Yes. It was it was a it was a very fun day for everyone.

Lee Kantor: And now are you going to just build that into future? Um, talk’s having a typo.

Carol Urton: Actually, yes. I’ve shared it with with my colleagues who are going to, uh, kind of build a. Yeah, because this, this concept is without being coached through it and doing the assessment, sometimes it can be a little bit hard to explain, but once you, you know, really begin to understand the concept, people can use it immediately. And, you know, people that are listening to the broadcast today, just, you know, being aware that we all, again, have the ability to decide how we’re going to react in every situation and taking a pause and really thinking about that and trying to figure out what the best outcome is going to be. And generally, you know, the level two energy of frustration and blame is not going to help anyone.

Lee Kantor: Right? And this type of thinking, it helps people go from that, uh, adversity into, uh, something that’s more productive and can lead to more successful outcome?

Carol Urton: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just the concept that everything, no matter, you know, good or bad, can be turned into a gift and an opportunity. And, you know, like I said, I had really been working on this concept for most of my life. I wrote a book a few years ago called when Hope hurts. And that book is really to help people who have been through extreme trauma. And so I know in my own life, you know, I really had to decide at one point whether I was going to, you know, let this situation, uh, beat me down or whether I was going to take it out and really, uh, make something good out of a really bad situation. And so that’s where a lot of my, you know, my energy comes from. And knowing that you can overcome anything, you just need the right tools and the right help to be able to do that. And so that’s where just having been speaking on this for years and years, writing the book, you know, being in the corporate world and then finding this profession of coaching and being able to combine all of my, my skill, my experience and, you know, my, my, my life experience has just come to this point where it’s been a beautiful thing to be able to serve other people.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, it sounds very rewarding, and it sounds like you figured out a way to really make that kind of impact that you probably were attempting to do early on in your career. Now you have kind of a through your career and living the life you’ve led. You have now all these tools and resources to really help people, uh, make meaningful change.

Carol Urton: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So, um, what do you what’s most rewarding for you now? Is it the coaching? Is it the that the consulting? Is it working individually? Is it a group like do you have kind of a favorite when it comes to working with people and sharing what you know?

Carol Urton: Yeah, I would say all of it. But I really I think where we make the most impact and where I really feel like we’re really making some progress is the team strategy consulting. And so we can take this energy leadership index assessment and we can do it for a group. We come up with a group average. And when the group begins to understand how they all operate, how they operate individually and then how they operate together, amazing things happen. I recently did this for a group of 19 HR professionals, and they came together and just had so much fun. Number one, doing the assessment and the group debrief. But really learning about how they can help each other and lift each other up, they can see, you know, when their colleagues are thriving and moving forward. They can see when their colleagues are stuck or being, you know, getting frustrated. And so it’s a really great tool to elevate the team and get them moving in that more, you know, visionary flow state, even if you are, um, a service professional like in a nonprofit or HR professionals who, you know, serve people all day long and to help them understand that, you know, that can burn you out, but you can use this information to begin to look at, you know, what’s going on with our employees.

Carol Urton: And, you know, how do we turn it into a gift and an opportunity and have more visionary thinking? Um, the second thing that I really love to do is I run an energy Leadership index, uh, Mastermind group. And so this is where I take six high performing leaders. I put them in a group, and we not only do the Energy Leadership Index assessment and debrief individually, but we have a seven week program where we explore each of these levels and talk together about, you know, how what do we do when you know we’re in level one? What are the situations that you have you’ve come across within, you know, your your career and your organization and how, you know, how can you change that? And as we spend an hour and a half each week for seven weeks on each of these levels, it becomes something where we learn from each other and people just grow and flourish. And so that’s been a really successful program. I’ve got one starting in September. And, you know, it’s something that has been really, really impactful for my clients and for me. I learn a lot from my clients.

Lee Kantor: Now, if somebody wants to learn more. Have a more substantive conversation with you about all of the concepts we’ve talked about today. Is there a website? Is there a best way to connect?

Carol Urton: Yes. It can reach me@carroll.com. And my email address is carroll@carroll.com.

Lee Kantor: And then that’s spelled c a r o l u r t o n.com. Uhhuh. Well, Carol, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Carol Urton: Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Ellen Goldman With EllenG Coaching, LLC

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High Velocity Radio
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Ellen Goldman With EllenG Coaching, LLC
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EllenG Coaching was created by Ellen Goldman to provide coaching and training to professionals and entrepreneurs who are worried about their health and happiness due to exhaustion, burnout, weight issues and other health challenges.

Her mission is to help business professionals get self-care back on their daily “to-do” list. Through her motivational talks, coaching programs, and online courses, she shows clients how to integrate health into their busy lifestyles with simple, small steps that lead to massive change, resulting in higher energy, improved focus, increased productivity and overall happiness.

With over 30 years of experience in and fitness industries working as a personal trainer and certified wellness coach, and as a business owner, wife, and mom, she knows first-hand that you do not need to sacrifice your health and happiness to have a successful career.

She is a National Board Certified Health & Wellbeing Coach, ICF PCC, and author of Mastering the Inner Game of Weight Loss: An Easy-to-Follow Guide to Permanent Weight Loss Without Going on a Diet.

Connect with Ellen on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why it’s so difficult for business professionals and entrepreneurs to keep self-care on their daily to-do list
  • Some simple daily habits to incorporate into the busy days that will lead to greater energy and productivity
  • The key to creating life-work harmony
  • Why it’s so hard to stay motivated and consistent with healthy habits, and what can be done to increase motivation

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Ellen Goldman. She is with EllenG Coaching and we are here to talk about personal health leading to business wealth. Welcome, Ellen.

Ellen Goldman: Hi. How are you?

Lee Kantor: I am doing well. I am so excited to be talking to you about this topic. But before we get too far into things, tell us a little bit about your practice. How are you serving folks at LNG coaching?

Ellen Goldman: Oh, absolutely. Well, first, thank you so much for inviting me to be on today and chat about what I feel incredibly passionate about. So by training, I’m a national Board certified health coach. And of course, health is a wide term that includes holistically, you know, both mental and our wellbeing and our physical health. And how I found my niche or my road that brought me to this very strong belief that personal health can lead to business. Wealth is actually when I first started networking my own company, and I came into this field at a very early stage where coaching was not a very well known industry, you know, executive business coaching, a little bit, a little bit of life coaching was being thrown out there, but nobody really understood what it was. And suddenly here were these health coaches and nobody really knew what it was. And I needed to go out and educate people about a service that can really help them lead a better life, both the ability to thrive, not just professionally, but personally and find the balance between the two. And so I started going to lots of networking meetings, meeting wonderful, smart, creative entrepreneurs and business professionals, people that were growing their businesses. And as they began to know me and feel comfortable with me, they would start to chat and I would start to hear things like, I’ve gained 25 pounds since I started my business.

Ellen Goldman: I exist on 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night. I’m never home. My kids don’t recognize me anymore. And there was just this lightbulb that went off for me that it was like, that’s kind of not the way we’re supposed to be living. Work is incredibly important. We all need to be working not just for financial reasons, but also to fulfill, you know, a sense of purpose. But that should not be our only purpose, and it shouldn’t define our Are days so completely that we neglect ourselves. And one of the first things that gets neglected is self-care. And as a business professional, especially if you’re an entrepreneurial business where you are the what I call the CEO, the you’re the everything person, you know, you do everything. It all depends on you. If you fall apart, that business will fall apart. And so it doesn’t matter how many great systems you have, if you do not have the energy to manage them and do what needs to be done to keep the business growing and thriving, you’re going to fall apart. And that means the business is going to fall apart. And so it was just really important for me to get the message out there that taking care of yourself actually is one of the most important things that you can do to thrive professionally.

Lee Kantor: Now, how does this message really sink in with that? Um, you know, this hustle culture and grind culture that it’s supposed to be 24 over seven and people brag about how they haven’t slept and they brag about how they sleep at the office. And and it seems like it’s almost a cult of sacrifice that they’re, they, they’re thinking that this is what it takes to be successful nowadays. And then you’re telling them, hey, maybe you ought to pump the brakes a little and pause and think about your health when in their minds they might think that they’re slacking if they, you know, go work out or sleep an extra couple hours. Like, how does how do you kind of communicate that message to people? It seems obvious when you say it, but when you’re in the midst of that kind of mindset, and especially if you’re surrounded with other kind of startup founders and they’re all competing with each other. Who can sleep at their office the longest? You know. How do you. How do you get that message through to them?

Ellen Goldman: It’s such a great question. It really begins with a mind set shift. Um, you’re absolutely right. You know, intellectually, it sounds good. But emotionally, making that change is so difficult. I mean, I do think that that is what, you know, coaching in general, no matter what phase of coaching you’re in. Coaching is the psychology of behavioral change. There’s no lacking in education around what we need to do to take good care of ourselves. People know my family is important, and yeah, I should be spending more time with them. And yeah, I know my health is important, but I’ll take care of it once the business is on its way and growing. And you know, but that waiting until is really a problem. So it begins with getting people in touch with what they really want for their future selves and what their values are. So we do a lot of visioning. You know, one of my favorite exercises that I love to do with people and, you know, I’ll do this just for fun when I meet people who ask me exactly the question that you just asked me, I’ll say, you know, take a moment and just sort of, kind of have some fun and play with me and visualize yourself, you know, 40 years from now, you know, and you’re retired and you’re sitting out there on the rocking chair, you know, and maybe your grandkids are sitting out there and looking at you and say, you know, tell me about your life. Was it good? Was it happy? What’s the answer you want to be able to give them? Do you want to be well enough to be out there playing with them? So sometimes it’s it’s like getting them towards this.

Ellen Goldman: If growing the business is towards making my life a better in the future. Being financially stable. Giving to my family. You know, how do I want to look back? It’s almost reverse engineering, which is a huge part of coaching as well because it’s again, it’s not that we don’t know what we’re supposed to be doing, but we don’t know how to change and we are competing with others. Sometimes it means sort of going the other road. I remember many years ago, um, I used to do a talk called Taming the Daily Frenzy, and it’s really based on brain research that sometimes is what connects with, um, business professionals who tend to be pretty, uh, you know, intellectual is to actually show them the research around how the brain was not designed to exist on 4 or 5 hours of sleep. The brain was not Is designed to multitask and how it becomes more efficient when it’s well rested, when it’s working with the proper habits, when nutrition and hydration are backing up brain function. And so when you can show people science evidence based research that shows that when you are feeling well, when you are healthy, when you are well rested, when you are eating well and taking breaks to get oxygen flowing through the body and the brain, that efficiency goes up, errors come down. You actually begin to be able to do more in a shorter period of time. It starts to make sense. Sense enough to say, well, let’s start experimenting. Let’s see what happens now.

Lee Kantor: Is it health and wellness in general it is kind of a long. You got to have a long timeline. This isn’t something that. Oh, I slept good last night. Now? Yeah. Everything is great. Like. Or, you know, I ate well yesterday. Oh, I lost 10 pounds. Like, it doesn’t work that simple, right? Like it’s something you got to kind of be invested in the long run. And it makes perfect sense to lead with all that kind of data and scientific research that says it is so. Because I think a lot of the folks that you’re trying to reach really believe in that stuff. So if, if that, that would resonate. Uh, to me, that’s a great starting place. Is there things that you do once they kind of intellectually go, okay, I’m going to buy in what you’re saying. And I love the way that you framed it in terms of let’s do an experiment. Are there some kind of simple, low hanging fruit things you lead with in order to kind of slowly ease them into this more, uh, mindful and healthy lifestyle?

Ellen Goldman: Absolutely. So I really believe that I am in the business of helping people change their lifestyle habits and be able to easily fit them into the lifestyle that they’re currently leading in the lifestyle they want. So there’s there’s kind of two sides of the coin. One of these is this future vision, you know, really getting in touch with what it is that we’re working towards. What is it that you want in the future? You know, what is it you know, that you want ten years from now? What is it you want 40 years from now? That visioning is a big part of it. But you also, we are a quick fix society. Everybody’s looking for that quick fix. So we’ve got to kind of show people that little changes can actually lead to really big, big changes in the future. So things like getting in the habit of keeping a water bottle on your desk. People don’t realize that fatigue dehydration masks itself as fatigue. Sometimes you’re feeling so tired and you’re dehydrated. You need to be sipping water all day. That’s such an easy thing for somebody to grasp and just do. And they’re like, huh? I do feel different. You know, our bodies were not designed to stay in one place for hours on end. So little things like setting a timer for 50 minutes and when that timer goes up, actually getting up, walking around a little, doing a few minutes of it doesn’t take long. 2 or 3 minutes of movement increases. Brain flow to the brain, increases brain flow to the body. You shut that down. You feel better doing this consistently. Suddenly you notice, gosh, I’m not aching so much at the end of the day anymore.

Ellen Goldman: But that doesn’t hurt. Well, that’s because you didn’t spend eight straight hours in a chair. And, you know, it’s little things versus I can’t tell somebody who’s existing on four hours of sleep at night. Okay, I want you to start sleeping eight hours. Like, I, I don’t think that’s happening. But can we begin to experiment? Let’s squeeze out 4.5 hours. Let’s kind of stick with that for a little while. How are you feeling? Is it changing your day a little bit? No, I don’t even really notice it. Okay, let’s let’s start inching to five hours and you take it over time. One of the. I think sleep is so essential. And again, this goes back to showing people and sharing the research with them. No matter what you want, no matter what your goals are, whether it’s stress relief, whether it’s weight loss, whether it’s getting fit, or whether it’s just being more engaged and present for your family. Just kind of what your ultimate goal is when you are not sleeping. Your emotional limbic brain is lit up all the time. It’s almost like in crisis and you can’t think straightly, so you don’t react appropriately and you won’t have the stamina to work on other goals if you can’t think straight. Sleep is a foundation to start with. But again, those little habits, you know, getting up, moving, drinking water, taking a ten minute lunch break. I speak to so many people who go, you know, hours and hours and hours without fuel in their body messes with the brain. You know, the brain is what we’re using to work.

Lee Kantor: Now, what is kind of the trigger that gets people to even, um, open their eyes to, hey, I better make a change, because a lot of folks, um, you know, it sounds like a good idea, and I’ll get to it when I get to it, but is there something that usually is a trigger? When it comes to working with you? Is it is it lead with maybe weight or does it lead with a health crisis? Is there something that happen in their life where they’re like, I better contact Ellen?

Ellen Goldman: Yeah. Yeah. Often? Yes. Unfortunately, some of it is the scary wake up call. You know, the yearly checkup at the doctor where the doctor says that your blood pressure is high and your cholesterol is high, and gives you a prescription for a whole bunch of pills. And, you know, early middle age individuals. I was like, oh, my God, I don’t want to be living on pills. You know, maybe you get the pre-diabetic, um, diagnosis. You know, those things are unfortunately the fear based. But it sometimes is a start. Others quite often it is weight that that is a big draw. I early on started because I come out of the fitness industry, and weight loss was a huge part of my practice. You know, they find me because of that, because they’re just uncomfortable, you know, carrying around 20, 25 pounds. And whether it’s the spouse or the doctor or even their kids saying you got to take some weight off, you know, that is the driver, but they don’t even recognize that weight loss is, again, holistic. It’s not just about what you put in your mouth and how you feed your, you know, how you move and exercise. Stress is a huge calling point where people begin to feel like the stress is unmanageable. And it’s scary that, you know, they’re they’re just worried that they can’t focus anymore because they feel so much stress. The hamstring call, what I mean by I mean the, um, the hamster. Sorry. Suddenly waking up that feeling like I’m a hamster on a wheel that will not stop. And this is not fun. I don’t like the way I’m living. I can’t, I can’t do this anymore. But I don’t even know how to get off. Those are the types of calls that will draw somebody to say, I got to try something different. And so coaching is a really unique option to help people make behavioral change that they may feel very highly motivated to do. But despite that motivation, they’re still struggling to make a significant enough change that it actually changes the way they feel when they open their eyes in the morning.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with your clients, is there you mentioned earlier about coaching and how coaching, you know, might have started more in a business or professional athletes space. And now it’s kind of evolving and it’s changing. And there’s a variety of different coaches for a variety of different things. Is there, um, are people like, proud? Hey, I got a coach, and I’m working on these things. Or is it something that, like, you’re, like, a best kept secret? Like they don’t want other people to know that. Hey, I got a coach, and that’s why I have more energy.

Ellen Goldman: Yeah, that’s actually, to some degree, very true. There still is. It’s not as bad as it used to be. Um, but sort of that same feeling of, you know, most people don’t go around and advertise that, hey, I’m working with a therapist. That must mean there’s something wrong with you. It kind of became this when it’s coaching suddenly became an understandable career. Uh, people were a little when it came to private coaching, not the coaches that are now in corporations who literally recognize the importance of the health aspect, companies bringing in not just executive coaches to help people, um, deal with the many aspects of business relationships with their coworkers being leaders, things like that, that they have to actually hold hands with the health coach because it is the foundation of how we show up every single day. So yeah, there’s definitely a little bit of like, I don’t really want people to know about this because they think that it’s shameful to ask for help. Shameful to say, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have it all together. However, it starts to shift a little bit in the same way that personal training did. You know where it’s like, hey, I’m taking great care of myself. So I’ve invested in myself by hiring a coach to help me be my best me to to show up in my full potential. So I think it depends on, um, for the individual where they sit with their own kind of self-confidence and self-esteem Around how they’re going to, whether they will share or they won’t share.

Lee Kantor: Now, I would think that this is a place where. Organizations and companies can really help. If they make it a benefit or a perk, then it becomes a status. You know that I have a coach. You know that I’m worthy of a coach, that they can really, you know, help with the shift of of eliminating some of the shame when it comes to working on yourself and improving, uh, kind of some of these issues that you’re talking about.

Ellen Goldman: Yeah. Yeah. So early on, um, I had several clients who were able to use their, you know, EAP to actually get some coverage for coaching. Um, we are definitely seeing so, so without going too much into the history of health coaching in particular and how it has grown, um, in 2017, I believe, uh, I’m pretty sure that was the first year The National Board certification for health coaches became available. I have seen a huge shift since there is this board certification to companies being interested in bringing on coaches because they recognize it as a, um, a, you know, industry standard. Coaching started out with people thinking it’s this like, you know, woo woo thing you do that isn’t based on science, but the best coaches who’ve had the best education, it is based on science, you know, it is based on physical science. It is based on positive psychology. And so the corporations themselves are feeling more comfortable. You know, I’m I’m in private practice. I’m at the end of my career. So I’m not that involved in what’s available out there. But when I first became a coach, there were no jobs. There was only the entrepreneurial route. But now it’s shifted because companies are out there looking to bring coaches on to help their employees thrive. Companies are recognizing that a happy, healthy employee is actually a better employee, you know? Um, so but they’re all when you look at those ads, they want National Board certified coaches. They want people that have the education behind them.

Lee Kantor: Now, if you were.

Ellen Goldman: Giving, that’s a great.

Lee Kantor: Thing. Yeah, I do too. I think that um, and like you said, that it’s it’s trickling down to, uh, everybody in the organization. It’s not just for the top, uh, C-suite. It’s not just. It’s not kind of remedial to fix, Bob. You’re you’re trying to you’re showing that coaching is a benefit for every employee, and everybody should have access to it, if you can afford that. But what advice would you give an organization if they want to change the culture into a coaching culture and, and incorporate, you know, a coach as part of the benefit package or, or the services they’re providing their people. Is there some do’s and don’ts you’ve learned on how to kind of integrate coaching into a workplace?

Ellen Goldman: Yeah. So I think it begins with that C-suite. It has to begin with the people at the top embracing this idea that we can accept a culture in our company where we do value health, where we do value personal life. You know, years ago, it would be like, you know, you were supposed to show up to the door and leave your personal life outside. You know, you didn’t talk about any problems. You didn’t talk about your family, maybe at lunch with your colleagues, but no. You know, don’t be emotional on the job. But people are starting to recognize that’s unrealistic. You know, we are a whole person all day long. We can’t just do that. And trying to do that impacts the way that we work. So it’s got to begin with the culture that that C-suite has to adopt, that culture that it’s okay that we believe this is a benefit. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. It’s not going to impact me. But the other part of it is it is imperative that that company recognizes, and I and I had personal experience in a wonderful opportunity that I had with just a very early on, smart CEO who recognized this and found me and had me come in and create a program for his employees.

Ellen Goldman: And I had to sit with him and explain to him that I’m going to hear a whole bunch of stuff. Some of it might be things that they don’t want you to know. They’ve got to be able to trust in me that behind that door, that coaching door, you know, the work door closes, the coaching door opens. Everything they say is totally within confidence there. You know, I can’t share that information with the C-suite. I remember when I was working with this company, I was the first one to know when women found out they were pregnant. I knew who was thinking about leaving. I knew who was struggling with depression, even though they were supposed to be their top salespeople. I found out this stuff, but they had to feel secure enough in me that the that the work they did was confidential, but I wasn’t sharing that. And I think that both sides of the coin have to understand that both the C-suite managers, etc., and the employee. So I think that’s a very important part. But it’s also one of the most beautiful things about coaching, whether it’s Coaching, you know, in this arena, whether it’s when I’m working with a weight loss client, you know, I’m beginning because I’ve been around for a while.

Ellen Goldman: Some of my followers, they’re getting towards retirement now, rethinking their life and getting a little concerned about what’s the next chapter. I didn’t plan it, but I’m finding occasionally I’m doing a little of transition work, you know, life changing, retirement planning type of work with some of my clients. But the underlying thread, no matter why somebody goes to a coach that I think is the gift of coaching, is finding yourself in this incredibly safe space where you can get all those crazy thoughts out of your head that, you know, you think if anybody heard you say that, they would think you’re nuts. You can actually get them out in a place where there is absolutely no judgment. There is that safety net support. And last but not least, the accountability that comes when you make a decision that I’m going to work towards this, that somebody’s going to keep you accountable, but they’re also not going to judge you if you’re struggling. I think that is the gift of coaching. We, not many of us, have that space in our lives where we can talk about some of the things and our struggles or our fears in that safety place where somebody who’s not emotionally attached to you and will never judge you.

Lee Kantor: Right. It’s a safe place for support and accountability. So you’re getting kind of the best of both worlds. You’re getting that sounding board, but you’re also getting kind of a person that’s going to say, well, you said you want to do this. Did you do this? And, you know, holding them accountable for that. And if they didn’t do that, then you go, well, why didn’t you do that? You know, like.

Ellen Goldman: Yeah, but but the way the. Why didn’t you do that? It’s funny that you phrased it that way. And I’m not picking on you at all because people don’t realize that Y is a very defensive word. People, why didn’t you do that? And they’re like, oh, like a versus. Okay, let’s explore the challenges that showed up this week that stood in the way of you following through with your intentions. It’s a really different way to say, oh, I didn’t do this because I chose to, you know, stay late after work and work on this project rather than head to the gym. You know, and talking about what was going on in your mind and what’s your, again, the long term goals that you’re working towards. Are they still important to you? How can you work around this? You know, if this shows up again, you know, going to the gym feels really important. But also finishing the project feels really. Maybe I should be going to the gym before I go to work. This after work plan is just falling apart. Okay, let’s experiment with that. So it is this trial and error without ever feeling like you. There’s no. You’re a good boy today. You were a bad boy today. Never. Like, what did you learn? Training people to be reflective around their behaviors. Understand what the drivers were. Because when you understand and you become reflective around your behavior, you become way more proactive than reactive.

Lee Kantor: Now, at this stage in your career, do you have kind of an ideal client? Is it an individual or do you work with organizations more? What is kind of the ideal client for you?

Ellen Goldman: So mostly, most of the work that I am doing right now is 1 to 1 in personal. You know, coaching clients that come to me. I also it’s I do work for the company that I trained with, mentoring new coaches who are going through the certification process. They need to work with mentor coaches before they can sit for their oral exams. Um, so interestingly, from that work, I have found a lot of health care professionals that are exploring the entrepreneurial journey and we do a lot of work around. Is that really the best nest path for you? And if it is, how are you going to go out and get your first clients? So that’s kind of on the professional end. The other side of it is when when I somebody reaches out to me, the first thing that I offer them is a what I call a strategy session, where we get on the zoom or phone or FaceTime, whatever they want, and we really explore. And this is a no strings attached meeting. We explore. Why are they reaching out for coach? What is it that they are looking to accomplish? And it is just as important for me to determine is this a good fit for me as it is for them to determine? Am I a good fit for them? And my clients range in gender.

Ellen Goldman: They range in age. They range in where they are in their professional life. But typically most of them are pretty driven professionals working. Or again, I’m starting to see this getting ready to think about retirement and what’s my next chapter going to be. But it’s diverse. It’s more important that we connect and vital to the people that I work with. I believe that physical health and wellbeing and mental health and wellbeing is the baseline that we have to begin with for any change that you want in life, and so they have to be grasping that. Yeah, I kind of think that’s right feeling I’m not a business coach, You know, if somebody was to call me and say, you know, I need to figure out, you know, how to grow in my career. Probably not me being the best coach for them. And I’m going to be honest and tell them that because, you know, what do I want? At the end of the day, it’s not just to keep bringing in clients, it’s the clients to go out and rave about the work that we do together. It has to be a good match.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, connect with you. What is the website? What is the best way to connect?

Ellen Goldman: So the website is WW. Coaching.com. They can reach me via email at ellen@lng.com. Um, and um yeah. Like let’s have a conversation. I love my strategy sessions because it helps me learn more and more about what it is that people need out there where they’re struggling. And I love meeting people. Social connection is a huge part of who we are as individuals, and so there is nothing to be lost from a conversation and maybe a lot to be gained if you recognize that. You know, my passion getting people to thrive both professionally and personally. Wake up in the morning and be excited about the day ahead.

Lee Kantor: Well, Ellen, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Ellen Goldman: Oh, thank you so much for inviting me on. I love chatting and talking and, uh, I hope that this resonates with your audience.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Michelle Gale With Michelle Gale, Ph.D., LLC

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Michelle Gale With Michelle Gale, Ph.D., LLC
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Michelle Gale, Ph.D., Managing Director of Michelle Gale PH.D. LLC.

PCC is a life, career, and leadership coach for women with decades of experience in coaching, clinical psychology, and career counseling. She empowers her clients to make tough choices, navigate personal and professional transitions, cultivate a healthy sense of their own authority, manage relationships effectively, and achieve audacious goals.

Dr. Gale is certified by the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and has a doctorate in clinical psychology from Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia.

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Her transition from practicing clinical psychology to coaching
  • How are psychotherapy and coaching different

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio in this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Michelle Gale, who is the Managing Director of Michelle Gale PH D. Welcome.

Michelle Gale: Thank you Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn about your practice. Tell us a little bit about the work you do.

Michelle Gale: Okay. I think I’m going to tell you the evolution of so that it makes some sense.

Lee Kantor: Okay.

Michelle Gale: Well, I became a clinical psychologist because. Because I grew up in a family with a father who was violent And an alcoholic. And, um, he gave my mother and I a very hard time. And, you know, as a kid, I mean, you don’t have language for this. You don’t. I mean, you can’t even really think about it. You just know something is not right here. And, um, so I grew up, and I learned, you know, that’s called domestic violence. And it’s a huge problem. And it happens around the world. And so, you know, out of the desire to keep other women and children from having to experience the kind of stuff my mother and I experienced, I became a psychologist. So I’m practicing along and I’m doing fine. I like it a lot. It’s a fit and, um, my body goes, goes haywire. I become unable to tolerate the simplest things, the food I’m eating, the, you know, the personal care products I put on my face, the clothes I’m wearing. I mean, you name it, my body went haywire. And it took a little figuring out. I mean, it was some some scary months there. And finally I got a diagnosis. This is called chemical sensitivity. And I’m reacting to chemicals that most of us just, um, will you go through your day and you neutralize these things. But I was reacting to them, which actually goes back to my father and his smoking. That’s that’s another story. So, you know, back then, um, psychology was done only in person. I mean, in order to be able to succeed as a clinical psychologist, you’ve got to be able to invite Strangers into your office and have conversations with them.

Michelle Gale: And all of a sudden. I’m like, um, you know. Do you smoke? Do you wear perfume, Cologne, aftershave? And it becomes impossible, you know? It just becomes impossible. So, um. Well, I mean, I had to spend some time getting a handle on what was going on with me. Physically. I had to calm myself down, um, my body down. And then a friend of mine suggested, what about coaching? And, you know, back then, coaching was often done remotely, whereas psychotherapy, you had to show up in person, you know. So, um, I transitioned to coaching and I have been coaching for, um, years now, like 13 years, 12 or 13 years. And. So at first I didn’t know, okay, what do I do with the skills and the perspective and all that I have as a coach? How does that translate? And um, and really I’m doing I’m working with a very much the same sorts of things as a coach as I did as a psychologist, except instead of working with often with diagnosable mental illness, you’re working with people who are more, you know, um, like, I don’t want to use the word normal. That’s a whole conversation, whether there is a normal. But but people who are functional, you know, highly functional, um, and, um, you know, have have issues to work out in order to be able to achieve their personal and professional goals.

Lee Kantor: So is your approach in helping them similar? Like do you go about the work that you do in a similar way, whether it’s psychology or coaching, or are they totally two different modalities?

Michelle Gale: You know, if you look from the outside, you would say you are doing the same thing, but they are actually very different modalities. One. One is a medical modality. It’s a form of medical treatment, but it uses talking. The other one is a learning modality. Coaching is a learning modality. You’re not treating anything. You don’t have diagnoses, you know. Um, and people sometimes like show up for coaching and they really need therapy or, or vice versa. And so I end up having to explain with some frequency. So in, in psychotherapy, um, you’re going back to the root of the problem, which is invariably in your childhood. And so you’re kind of, you know, your gaze is turned toward the past and you’re sorting out the experiences that you’ve had, who’ve made you you know, who you are today. Um, in coaching, you’re you’re dealing with the present and the future so you can deal with issues from your past as they show up in the present, you know, but but you’re not going back to the roots and of those issues and straightening them out, you know, kind of from the beginning. So, um, it really is two very different methodologies. One another difference is that, um, coaching is very targeted. I mean, people come in and you say, okay, what do you what do you want to accomplish here? You know, and you work toward those goals which sometimes evolve. But you have the the client has goals and you target those goals kind of relentlessly. Um, whereas psychotherapy is much more open ended, you know, and, um, something comes up and, and it seems like there might be something fruitful there. Okay. You go work on that for a while. So, um, the thing about coaching is that it tends to be faster. In other words, the coaching engagement is generally shorter because it’s very targeted. You know, you’re working on one or 2 or 3 very specific things. And when you achieve those things, then you’re done.

Lee Kantor: So are the outcomes kind of similar or are they like like if you spent um six months with a therapist. Would you get a similar outcome of spending six months with a coaching client, or is that probably not?

Michelle Gale: No. Probably not. I mean, six months of psychotherapy. So you’re probably deep in sorting out. Um, the, the, the early issues that you kind of bring with you through your life, um, and that color your perceptions and your responses and reactions wherever you go. Um, you’re probably in that somewhere in six months, you know? Um, six months of coaching. Um, you you’ve set some very specific goals. Like, you know, I want to get a new job. I want to get a promotion. I want to figure out whether I want to stay married to this, to this man or not. Because generally I work with women. Um, but not always. Um, just, you know, targeted goals. And you’ve worked in a focused way on those goals in six months. You know, depending on what the goals are. You you could very well be complete.

Lee Kantor: Now as a practitioner or both. Do you? Or do you still do the psychology or.

Michelle Gale: No. You know, I, I, um I let go of the psychotherapy and of course, now in this post-Covid world, psychotherapy is done remotely, just like coaching. But I’m kind of in a different, you know, I’m in a different world now. And, um, I, I, I just coach now.

Lee Kantor: So.

Michelle Gale: Yeah.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m just trying to understand now that you’ve, you’ve experienced both and you’ve had success doing both. Is there one that like, are you liking coaching more? Like, is it more fulfilling? Do you like having that? Oh, I help the person solve a problem and then they feel good, I feel good, and I move on to the next person. Or was it more rewarding to spend a lot of time over a long period of time with somebody to get to the heart of the matter?

Michelle Gale: That’s a hard question to answer, and I’m going to say that. Um, each has its pluses and its minuses. Um, I really liked them both. I mean, they’re very similar sorts of things to do. And the way I understand it, I mean, the way I experience it. Michelle Gayle coaching is, is looking through the eyes of a psychologist. I’m a coach who looks through the eyes of a psychologist, which is which is different, you know, than what most than what most coaches do. Um, so I bring. You know, I bring, um, I bring some things with me that that, um, other coaches probably wouldn’t have available to them and gives my work, um, a uniqueness, you know, um, I’m very happy coaching. I was very happy doing psychotherapy. You know, it’s kind of like. Do you do you prefer chocolate ice cream or do you prefer pistachio ice cream? Well, maybe it depends on the day. You know, I like them both.

Lee Kantor: Now, is your work in, um, coaching? Is that one on one? Like, I assume that your work with the clinical psychology with one on one? Or is there also kind of group and, um, cohorts and things like that in coaching?

Michelle Gale: Yeah. Um, well, in both coaching and psychotherapy, you know, um, you can have individual, you can have couples, you can have a group, um, as a coach. Most of my work is individual, but, um, I’m actually, um, working on designing a a small group experience. Now that I’m looking forward to launching in the not too distant future that that I’m excited about. Um, so, um, I do individual and I will soon be doing group and, you know, as, as a psychologist, I did individual couples, I did family, I did group. I mean, um, it’s that’s a fun thing, you know, that that you can do different sorts of things. You don’t have to do the same thing day in and day out.

Lee Kantor: Now, any advice for other coaches that are listening now if they are never done group before? There are some do’s and don’ts of, uh, managing the needs of a group.

Michelle Gale: Absolutely. Solutely. I mean, because you can coach individually. That in and of itself is not necessarily is is is not going to make you a terrific group coach. Um, group. You know, the commonality in both of them, um, is that first and foremost, you have to be able to create a safe space for your client or clients. And this is true in individual and in group. Nobody will open their mouth, you know, if you can’t do that. Um, but group involves, you know, uh, a whole other set of skills about how do you, how do you balance among the people in the group, you know, how do you make sure No one fades into the woodwork and no one dominates that, you know? Um, it’s, um, it’s a whole other skill set, and there’s training and group coaching, just like there is an individual coaching. But before I think out of, you know, out of respect, um, for the work, you would want to get group training before you actually did it.

Lee Kantor: Now when you’re working a group or the is the group typically around a topic or a subject matter rather than just, uh, a general kind of type of coaching, like, are they there because they are all, um, you know, want to work on leadership skills or they’re all trying to get a job or something like that?

Michelle Gale: Um, there’s all different kinds of groups, just like there is all different kinds of Individual engagements. Um, I’m going to be focusing the group that I’m working on, planning, um, around a set of, um, like many lessons at the beginning of each group. And then we do we do individual exercises, and then we come together as a group and talk. Um, that’s the way I’m going to be doing that. But but there’s a lot of room for creativity there.

Lee Kantor: Now, any advice for the individual that maybe has never had a coach before? What are some do’s and don’ts when it comes to starting a new coaching uh, relationship with somebody.

Michelle Gale: Mhm. Mhm. Okay. Well you know item number one with coaching I mean if you go to a psychologist and they really are a licensed Psychologist. You got a whole licensed psychologist there. But if you go to a coach, coaching is a little more of a Wild West at this point. Um, there are coaching credentials, but there are people who coach who don’t have any credentials. So it’s a real good idea to start by making sure the person has a coaching credential. Often, especially in the United States, that would be ICF, the International Coaching Federation. But there are other, um, you know, worthwhile credentials that coaches have. And if you have a coach who’s put up a shingle and they don’t have any credentials, I mean, no, they don’t know what they’re doing. Don’t go to them. Um, that would be the first thing. Uh, the second thing is, you know, these things are very personal. Um, there. Someone could be a very competent coach and just. There’s no chemistry there. You know, like, the two of you don’t like talking to each other very much. Or, uh, the coach really doesn’t have the expertise you seek. So it’s a personal thing. You know, you go, you have a conversation, and you see what you think. I mean, is this a person in whom you think you can place your trust over time? Of course, you don’t start out with trust. You start out with, um, okay, I don’t know. But over time, does this feel like a person that you could come to trust? And if the answer is yes, then that’s a real good place to start.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you manage the within the coach? Coach, I guess. Relationship. Um, how do you how does the person who’s being coached. Kind of. Decide, okay, this person’s asking me hard questions or is asking me to do things I don’t want to do, and I’m uncomfortable. But maybe that’s in their best interest, and maybe that’s the role of the coach to be pushing them and to, you know, not just being their friend and supporting you, you just but by, you know, if you came here to accomplish this, you’re going to have to do some hard things. And you’re a person who can do hard things. So I’ll, you know, help you get through it. But ultimately you have to do the work in order to get the result you desire. And how do you kind of know that? Oh, I, I don’t like them asking me to do hard things because it makes me I’m nervous about doing this and I’m scared. So how do I know that that coach is the right coach for me, or should I just pull the plug if I’m, you know, not feeling it?

Michelle Gale: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Um, so, you know, the coach doesn’t really, um, a good coach doesn’t set goals for the client. You know, you don’t ask the client to do stuff. You facilitate the client and deciding what is their next step, and you support them and being able to do it. I mean, you don’t like a good coach does not push clients. And if you did push clients, you would just lose them very quickly. I mean, you know, we it’s a collaboration. You you as a coach, you like walk alongside the client. You enable the client to do things that the client wouldn’t be able to do on his or her own. But it’s the client. It’s the client who decides. Okay, you know, I’m up to this. I’m ready to do this now. This is my next initiative. Not the coach who says, go out there and do that thing.

Lee Kantor: But isn’t there some point? There has to be some accountability. Isn’t some of the coach’s role to be the accountability partner, to say, hey, you said you were going to make these five calls. How many did you make? I made one. It’s like, well, you’re not going to get to where you want to go. If if the goal, you know, you say you’re gonna do five and you did one.

Michelle Gale: Okay. Yeah. I mean, there is certainly accountability and you’re in service of the client. So let’s say you said you were going to do five calls, but you did one. My response to that is not where are the other four calls. You’re never going to succeed like this. My response to that is And how come you didn’t make the other four? You know what all happened there? Unpacking it and looking with the client at what happened. How was it that you got through? One. I mean, was it that bad that you didn’t get to the other four? What? What’s going on? You know, and and you work with the client, you discover, you know, if there’s a block there. What? What’s the block? And how should we deal with it? But you don’t like, um, you know, give the client a scolding because they they didn’t keep all of their agreements. I mean, we do the best we can, you know, and if and people who show up for coaching, well, they need a little help. We all need help, you know, at times.

Lee Kantor: So when you’re working with a client, did you have early on, um, a sign that, hey, I think I’m good at this. I’m going to be able to pull this off. Like, were you getting kind of the positive responses that you were looking for or your clients were getting success quickly? Like, were there certain signals to you that was like, okay, I’m going to be able to make this transition from practicing clinical psychology to coaching. You know, I’m getting a lot of signs that I’m on the right track here.

Michelle Gale: Well, yeah, I mean, I would say the first sign was I knew how to do things they hadn’t taught me how to do yet, you know, and, um, that was acknowledged like by people who were training me. Oh, wow. You know. Um, so that was the first sign. Okay, this you’re going to be able to make this transition, you know? Um, and, and as far as my relationships with clients went, um, you know, I had to learn some things, um, really to transition. Um. So. So you take your cues from your clients, like, what are they needing? Um, but. Yeah, people. It’s an individual thing. I’m not. I’m not the coach for every person on earth. You know, just like you’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people really like you, and some people will go work with someone else. But, um. But I, as a psychologist, you know, I learned how to create a rapport with people with whom I had nothing in common. Really? I mean nothing. And because you have to be able to do that in order to help them, you know. And with coaching, um. That’s it’s it’s a little easier in coaching. Um, you know, it’s not that great a range, Perhaps of clients, but, um. Yeah. I mean, that’s an ability that I took from psychology that I, that I transferred over to coaching is knowing how to be with a person, you know, to help them articulate what they’re needing and. To help them, you know, go through a learning and growth process that will enable them to get there. And when people feel like you can do that and it’s something they genuinely want, well, they’re very happy. You know.

Lee Kantor: Now when you have a coaching engagement, how do you know when it’s done? Like do they just like you said, an objective early on and say, okay, I, you know, I’m doing coaching because I want to be promoted. So then you work on that and then they’re promoting you and they just say thank you, bye. Or is it something that, um, is a moving kind or the goalposts, constantly moving as people’s life, you know. Once you achieve something, you’re usually looking for the next mountain to conquer.

Michelle Gale: Mhm. Yeah. You know. Um. So let’s say you come to coaching because you want a promotion and, and you know, however many months were maybe a year later you get that promotion, you feel complete. Um, in you haven’t just gotten a promotion. You’ve also addressed all the issues that you needed to address that were in the way of your getting a promotion. You know, so you’ve you’ve experienced some personal growth alongside, um, achieving this objective that, that you would set for yourself. And at that point, you know, people make a decision mostly if you have achieved your goal in coaching, you feel like you’re done. You know that’s what you came for. And you know, you may circle around a year or 2 or 3 later and say, I’ve got myself another real challenge here. I could use some help or not. Um, uh, usually that’s the case. And on occasion, yeah, other things evolve and you decide, you know, now I’d like to work on this, but generally speaking, when a coaching client achieves his or her or her goal, um, they feel complete, and and they leave.

Lee Kantor: So. And then you’re both kind of good with it, and then you just move on to the next client. Is that it sounds it sounds coaching sounds more transactional than maybe therapy does.

Michelle Gale: Well it isn’t. I mean, it’s shorter lived, you know, and it’s more circumscribed. Um, I but the the the part of your question I really want to address, um, is this business about, you know, are you both good with that? And you go on to the next client. Um, I got some training, um, as a coach early on as a coach that said, basically, you know, don’t relinquish those clients easily. You know, keep them around as long as you can. And and I was confused because that’s not what you do as a, as a psychologist. You know, when when they want to move on, they move on whether they’re finished or not. Your job is to let go. Um, and, um, and I got some training early on as a coach that said, no, you know, that’s not what you do. And so I tried that, you know, a few times and actually it backfired horribly. You when somebody is ready to move on, you support them and moving on. You know, you don’t admonish them. You don’t try to manipulate them into staying. People have to do what they feel is right and what they feel is right in the moment. You know, and if you get in their way, it’s not going to go well.

Lee Kantor: So is there a story you can share? Maybe a success story that don’t name the name of the person, but maybe share an example of what the challenge they had when they started with you, and how you were able to help them get to a new level.

Michelle Gale: Yeah. Um. One of the things I see a lot of I see people who are in mid-career. Who are still behaving as though they’re kind of baby professionals, not full professionals, um, in that, um, they’re low on self-confidence and they look outside them for approval. In other words, they are still trying to prove themselves when actually they already have. You know, they have whatever credentials they need to do the thing they do. Um, they’ve been doing it for a while, you know, they have they have work. They have a boss. Boss isn’t like, oh my gosh, you don’t know what you’re doing. You should leave. Everybody’s happy with them. And they are still there, like exhausting themselves, trying to prove themselves. This this habit that they learned long ago. You know, as kids, as students, um, of kind of, um, putting the authority outside of themselves, um, as opposed to owning it, you know, taking ownership of, um, their own process, um, who they are as a professional and being able to evaluate themselves. And so I see a fair amount of this and I have to say, um, it’s pretty common among women, but I, I see it in men, too. And, um, and it’s not, you know, these are not people who just started doing what they’re doing a few months ago, in which case you probably are still trust yourself, and that’s the best module that makes sense. You know, these are people who’ve been doing something for years and they’re still trying to prove themselves. So, um, so when I work with someone who’s got that kind of, you know, dynamic going on, and I helped them get to a place where they feel like they know who they are as, as professionals, as as adults and as professionals, and they become more capable of evaluating how they’re doing for themselves.

Michelle Gale: And. Some are much less hung up about what other people see in them. You know, how how other people feel like they’re doing. I mean, not that you become cold and callous and uncaring, but that you’re capable of making your own choices. You know that, you know, you’re a competent professional, you know, and you kind of. You get yourself situated in that so that what happens is, um, instead of your attention being divided and part of you is working on whatever issue you’re working on, you know, for the company, for the client, whatever, um, part of you is working on that. And, and the other part of you is working on, oh my goodness, am I doing okay. What does he think of me? What does she think of me? You know, um, and when you let go of and you can be 100% fully present with the work, whatever it consists of. This is, um, you know, this is a real leap in, in what’s professional development, but it’s also personal development. Those things really aren’t divisible. Um, and, and that’s the sort of thing I often do with my clients. It’s one of the issues I work on. There are others, but that’s an example of, you know, when it works, um, that’s what it can look like.

Lee Kantor: And then once you can get through that, then that’s forever. That’s a, you know, once you can have that belief in yourself and then who you are and what you’ve accomplished, that’s a lasting impact, I’m sure.

Michelle Gale: Exactly. And that’s the thing I think, that people don’t always take into account when they enter coaching, but it’s so important, Written, which is I mean, you not only got whatever the specific goal was that you came to, to achieve. You developed yourself to a point where you know you’re playing a different ballgame now. And and as you said, that stays with you wherever you go. That’s going to go with you. And that’s, you know, that’s the thing that’s so compelling about coaching. I mean, that you’re not yes. You’re helping people meet their goals. And in the moment that’s super important to them, you know, but you’re also helping them develop as individuals. And that’s really why I do what I do.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you. Is there a website? Is there a best way to connect?

Michelle Gale: There sure is. Um. It’s Michelle Gale. Um, there’s a contact form on there, and I’m very happy to talk to people who aren’t sure if this is right for them, but are interested.

Lee Kantor: And Gayle is about Gayle.

Michelle Gale: Good point. So Michelle has two L’s. Am I h e l l e and Gayle is g l e shel Gayle p h d.

Lee Kantor: Well, Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Michelle Gale: Thank you so much, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Janice Brathwaite With Workplace Transformations™

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High Velocity Radio
Janice Brathwaite With Workplace Transformations™
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Janice Brathwaite is an award-winning healthcare workforce leader, Organizational Culture Strategist, and Certified Executive and Life Coach with over 17 years of experience helping mission-driven organizations build people-first workplace cultures.

As the Founder and CEO of Workplace Transformations™, she developed the signature Workplace Transformations Method™, a proven five-part framework that helps leaders identify and address cultural misalignment to improve retention, engagement, and organizational performance.

Named Employer Partner of the Year by Operation Able, Janice has worked with health centers and Fortune 500 companies, including Xerox, Motorola, and Procter & Gamble. She holds a Master’s in Management from Cambridge College and is certified in Lean methodologies and organizational culture assessments. Her thought leadership has been featured on podcasts like Reach Radio, JD Hyman, and Notes on Resilience.

She also publishes The Culture Catalyst, a monthly newsletter on LinkedIn. Based in Salem, Massachusetts, Janice brings both strategic insight and lived experience to her work—grounded in her belief that everyone deserves to be seen, heard, and supported in the workplace.

Connect with Janice on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • The Problem with PIPs (Performance Improvement Plans)
  • Culture Debt and how it can impact your organization
  • Toxic Leadership

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Janice Brathwaite and she is the CEO and founder of Workplace Transformations. Welcome.

Janice Brathwaite: Thank you. Good to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about workplace transformations. How are you serving folks?

Janice Brathwaite: Well, a while back, probably in 2019, I had come up with this idea and I was thinking about why hasn’t things gotten better for employees? I mean, I’ve been in the workforce quite a long time, and it just doesn’t seem like we’re making any headway. So the question I asked myself is, what’s causing. What kinds of things are causing that. And as I continue to dig deeper and deeper, I realized that it was the foundation on which the culture is the foundation of an organization. And if there’s cracks in that foundation, those are going to be the things that are going to cause your problems. And a lot of people just try to ignore them and say they’ll go away. So I was working in health care at the time. And when Covid came along, I had to kind of put this on the back burner because there was no time when you were in health care to actually be doing anything else but health care. But once things kind of, you know, slowed down a little bit, I made a decision that I was going to leave health care, the place I was working, and, and go do this full time because I really feel there’s a value in what I have to offer.

Lee Kantor: So when you say do this full time, what exactly does that mean? How are you going? Are people coming to you and saying, I would like to transform my workplace. I feel like we have a culture problem. Or are you proactively going up to people and saying you might have a culture problem? Like how did how does your business work?

Janice Brathwaite: I, I actually reach out to to customers, to people in the organization, in organizations. And because I know a lot about health care, a lot of my focus has been, you know, talking to people in the health care area because I was in health care for 17 years. So I pretty much know what’s going on, especially today. There’s a lot of upheaval. So so it’s really a good time to try to take a look at what’s going on. So what I do is I reach out to people I, you know, I write articles, I do marketing, I have a marketing person, and I work with a PR person and just trying to get the name out there because the company and it’s, it’s really it’s fairly new. So building your brand, as you probably know, is one of the toughest things to do. You have to do it in many different ways because you want to get to many different audiences. So that’s what I’ve been doing. And reaching out, reaching out to my contacts in healthcare. I think I’m going to broaden my scope a little bit. I was in community health, but I think right now I need to broaden that out to make it more around medical services, not just community health.

Lee Kantor: So what are kind of some of the symptoms that an organization would be having, where culture might be at the heart of it? Are there some symptoms or maybe some clues that these organizations are feeling a pain, but they aren’t kind of, you know, putting their finger on what the cause is?

Janice Brathwaite: Right. One of the first places I worked with, they called me in because they said they were having problems on one particular floor of this facility, which I thought was kind of interesting in itself. And they wanted me to dig in and find out why that was. Why was that for a particular floor? Having all of these problems. So I met with the nurses first. And of course, nurses are very outspoken. And they’ll tell you exactly like it is. So they were telling me a story about how they were going to outsource some of the triage stuff that the organization, the health care organization was doing. And they told the nurses on a Friday that they were outsourcing it on Monday. So the nurses felt like, well, they didn’t ask us anything about, how do you do this? What kind of questions should you be asking our patients? You know, if you if you get this kind of situation, this is how you could handle it. So they just felt like there was no communication. They were kind of blindsided by all of this. And this is pretty pretty. It’s pretty much across a lot of organizations. Communication. When I do assessments, communication comes back as the most important thing. But the thing that’s not being done very well.

Janice Brathwaite: So the next group I went to was the doctors and I got in. I got in the meeting and the CEO was there and the doctors all filed in and I so I, you know, I turned it over to the CEO to kind of explain what was going on. And they’re like, what, what what I don’t I don’t know anything about this. Why were we told that this was going to be the topic of conversation? So I knew right then because they had no basis for a conversation at all. As we started to kind of, you know, pull the layers away, one of the persons, one of the doctors said to me, well said to the group, I’m doing the best I can, but nobody seems to recognize it. And then they started to cry. I’m like, oh my God, this is really bad. So, um, and then I went to the CEO and said, you know, the doctors are. They’re not in a good place there. You know, they feel like they’re not getting the, you know, the support of the communication that they need to get their jobs done. The next group was the front line, and the front line was the most candid about everything, and really brought up the similar types of situations in that area.

Janice Brathwaite: The things like around communication, you know, engagement around recognition. Recognition is another big thing that always comes up. People don’t feel like they’re being recognized for the work that they’re doing. And it’s not just getting a paycheck. It’s your boss coming to you and saying, hey, you know, you did a good job on that today. You know, good job. It doesn’t have to be some big, convoluted process. It has to be mindfulness. I mean, leadership has to be mindful that we’re dealing with human beings, and human beings need to know where they stand at certain times. So when I went back to the CEO and to kind of debrief, she said, I told you, I told you what they were going to do. They were going to blame us for it. And I started I almost started laughing because I was like, well, it is you. I’m saying to myself, it is you. Everything they’re saying is pointing right back at you. So I gave them a whole plan, which they implemented, which was very surprising and very, very encouraging. And they just they went from a really bad place to getting just recently I saw it on LinkedIn. They received a $30 million grant from a foundation. So they have completely turned that organization around.

Lee Kantor: And then what were some of your recommendations to like, how were you going to attack the improving of the communication and the, um, you know, stop taking people from granted.

Janice Brathwaite: Right? I think a lot of times that leaders, things like have a town hall and then we’ll talk to everybody together. And that sometimes works. It depends on what the conversation is. But it really is about, you know, meeting with your staff. You know, like managers, senior leaders and leaders need to meet more with their staff and be candid and clear about what they’re what they’re planning to do or what their what the problems are. A lot of times they kind of skirt around the problems. I was telling a funny story the other day that I actually wrote in my newsletter that when I was in working in one organization, I used to joke about this. You know, I’d be walking out of the conference room, and I turned to one of my colleagues and say, did you notice that big hump underneath the rug in the conference room? And they’d say, well, what? What are you talking about? There’s a big hump there. And they’re like, well, what is it? I said, it’s everything that we sucked under the rug all these years, but it’s not going to go away. I think sometimes people think it’s just magically going to, you know, things will magically get better. Um, and it doesn’t. You have to really, you know, be intentional about what you’re doing. So communication in recognition of the top two. And if and I know communication is a difficult thing and I’m not saying it’s easy to do. But as a leader hopefully you know you’ve learned some techniques to do that, which I’m not seeing a lot of that right now.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you find that culture is one of those things that if you’re not mindful about it and you’re not intentional about it, it’s going to form Without any input from you. Uh, a culture is going to exist whether you’re kind of, um, proactively, um, trying to nudge it or encourage it to be a certain way because it just it’s like branding, even if you’re not putting any effort into it, it’s happening. So how do you recommend the people be, you know, put more intentionality around kind of the the things that are important, like you’re saying how um, recognition and um, communication are important. You have to put things in place that encourage that type of behavior if you want it to continue to be important. Otherwise it’ll just be a mess and it’ll just kind of, uh, you’re not going to have any kind of say over the matter. It’s just going to happen in its own haphazard way.

Janice Brathwaite: Right? Um, when I think about that, I think about, you know, what they say about how to how would you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. In order to find out what’s going on, you really have to do an assessment, and you’re not going to be able to solve everything at the same time. I mean, if it depends, I mean, if there’s maybe five things you might be able to do, but it’s going to be over time. And that’s why it’s so important to have a plan, to have a plan on how to do this. And that’s where I come in. I do all of the, you know, I review all of the assessments and, and do all of the crunching of numbers. And then I come back with what I call a playbook that I can use, they can use to actually implement change in the organization.

Lee Kantor: So but in order for that to occur, they have to, number one, be self-aware. There’s a problem. And number two, give you permission to go out and kind of do the research you need to do in order to come up with the plan. And, and then hopefully they’ll, you know, act on it.

Janice Brathwaite: Right. Well, that’s why I start at the top. That’s where I know if this organization is really serious about this. You know, a lot of times people think you can push change from the bottom up. You can’t. It has to be top down. If the leader or the CEO or whoever the leading is leading that organization doesn’t believe that is important, then it’s not going to be important. They have to. And it really takes me talking to them and kind of guiding them and giving them examples of things and asking them questions. You know, so, you know, what are some of the what are what are two of the things that you find you’re struggling with the most in the organization? So I can get an idea, and then I can kind of use those as levers to kind of get the door open a little bit. And then slowly, you know, I start to bring them on board more and more and more. Then I move to senior leadership, and I work with them and get their Input, and then so on down the line within an organization so that everybody knows what’s going on. You know, you can’t do this without bringing your staff into it, because they’re the ones that are going to make going to do the assessment. So they have to be on the CEO has to be on board. There’s no doubt about it now.

Lee Kantor: Or is the problem kind of are they seeing a problem of in terms of employee retention or turnover. Are those kind of the clues for the leaders that something’s amiss. Like is that kind of the the big flashing light when you’re having a hard time hiring or you’re having a lot of turnover in an area, or those are the things that are like, okay, this has to be triage at some point.

Janice Brathwaite: Well, yeah, I mean, recruitment and retention is and especially in the health care field was really a, you know, high priority. And it’s, you know, they’re having very a lot of difficulty getting people to work in that particular field. Not not the only ones, but there are others out there as well. But that is a definite sign that something’s wrong. Because if you can’t recruit people, you ask yourself the question, well, what is it about this organization that’s making people not want to work here? Because people talk, you know, and they tell each other what’s going on. You know, like, I don’t know if you really want to work there. Yeah, I don’t know. I’ve heard some bad things. And, um, the retention is really, you know, the recruitment is the external, but the retention is internal, and that’s where you really have. Now you want to keep the people that you’ve got. And I have this thing that I’m not saying it’s a it’s a process called value driven hiring. So my theory is if someone doesn’t believe what you believe, then they’re probably not going to stay with you there. And this becomes especially important, I think is important in all industries. But how do you find out if they believe what you believe and they’re, you know, is clued into, oh, yeah. You know, like I really feel like, you know, like I could catch on to this, this process. I could catch on to this desire, this whole, this mission that this, this organization has. You’ve got to interview differently. And that’s what a lot of people don’t do.

Lee Kantor: So they’re not they’re not they’re not kind of making sure that the values are aligned that that they’re all kind of trying to get to the same place ultimately.

Janice Brathwaite: Right. And it’s not just in the interview, it’s in the job posting. I mean, you got to call out what you’re looking for because you want to attract the people who believe it, and you want to attract the people that don’t believe it. So you’re not wasting your time. I mean, I’ve seen this multiple times. Somebody gets in a the job. And then, you know, the front desk and they’re talking to patients and and a lot of times they think they’re thinking, well, I don’t understand why are they getting health care? And I you know, I have to pay for mine. Why are they getting this for? For nothing. You know, that is not the person you want when you when you’re working with patients, you know, you don’t want somebody just to say that, to think that. So you’ve got to figure out what are the what are their real thoughts are. And this became clear to me, I used to run an AmeriCorps program in the organization in which I worked. And the first year I got there, and I just did like the regular interviewing and, um, and these people were going to be sent out to various organizations. Um, so they weren’t in the same building as me. They were going to be somewhere else.

Janice Brathwaite: So I went through it, and I realized that I wasn’t getting the quality of the quality of person that I really needed to be able to send them out to someplace else and know they were going to work. So then I started, you know, working on and thinking about it, reading. And I came up with a value based hiring is is the key. So I changed my whole process of interviewing. I didn’t I mean, I looked at their I looked at their resume. I looked at, you know, a lot of these people right out of college. So they didn’t have, like, you know, extensive resumes. But I look at their resume and then I’d ask them questions like, so tell me how you deal with conflict. And I wouldn’t get I wouldn’t say anything after that. Just let them talk because you don’t want to lead them. You want them to say exactly what they mean. And the more I did that, the better the quality of the person and the happier the places that I was sending them to were because they didn’t have to babysit them. You know, they came in, they were ready to work. They wanted to do it, and they were there for all the right reasons.

Lee Kantor: Right? So it was a better fit. You were able to get better fits faster?

Janice Brathwaite: Yes, absolutely.

Lee Kantor: That reminds me of somebody I interviewed. Um, they work, uh, in leadership of a large, uh, fast food company. And they were in charge of hiring the the people, the front line people that were dealing with the customer. And they said they only hired people who were natural smiles. They wanted people that had the kind of that cheery disposition, naturally. Um, because you can’t really train that, and you can’t make a non smiler a smiler. So, you know, when they’re looking to hire, that’s, that’s a quality they look for because they’re, they’re already close, you know, in terms of customer service, if the person is smiling just naturally.

Janice Brathwaite: Right I mean you can it become clear to me you can teach someone a skill if they’re somewhat intelligent, you can teach them a skill, but you can’t teach them about it, you know. And I was I was saying I was talking to someone a while back and I said, no, my belief is that by the time you’re five years old, you have all your base values. You know, don’t hurt other people, don’t take what doesn’t belong to you. And then over time, as you get older, you start to say, well, maybe I need to vet that value. I don’t think I’m doing really good there with that particular thing. So you start to take on value. So if someone wants to take on a value, they will, but you can’t force them to.

Lee Kantor: Yeah it’s going to be voluntary.

Janice Brathwaite: So you know you just waste your time if you if you keep, you know, pushing and pushing and pushing. But they’re not going to, they’re not going to be able to get to where you want them to be. And I like that. I like that thing about smiling because it does tell something about the person. You know, you don’t want somebody grumpy coming in. Um, you know, when you’re dealing with the public. So that makes that makes good sense.

Lee Kantor: Now, how has the transition been for you? Working as an employee at different organizations and doing the type of mentoring and coaching you were doing there, to the type of work you’re doing now where you’re the entrepreneur that are that’s coming in. Um, but I would guess you’re doing kind of similar work in, in the actual activities you’re doing. But from an entrepreneurial standpoint versus an employee standpoint, was that a difficult transformation for you?

Janice Brathwaite: Not really, because I always said I was working. I felt like I was working for myself. And um, and luckily I had some managers and leaders that would allow me to do that. So I was kind of setting my own course, even internally. Um, and I think a lot of times I’d say, well, you know, if you don’t, if you don’t fall off the rails, it’ll be good. I’ll tell you. A program I developed is called Grow Your Own. And while I was there, and it was at this organization, and it was about, you know, instead of, you know, always looking outside for people. Let’s develop the people that are in the organization to become medical center assistants or dental assistants. And I just thought about that. And I, you know, I sat down and thought about it and I said, you know, I think this might work. And if people don’t think I’m crazy, I think they’ll go along with it. And they did. So I always felt like an independent. I really did. I’m a very independent anyhow, but I, I’ve always felt in myself that way and, and as long and I always knew what I needed to go and ask questions on like it was financial or, you know, something was involved.

Janice Brathwaite: It was confidential. I would go to a leader and say, hey, you know, I want to do this, but I’m not sure, you know, that’s the right thing to do just to get feedback. So I knew my I knew my my boundaries. You know, I say empowerment is like a highway. When you’re on the highway. I don’t know how many lanes you have down where you are, but say there’s three lanes and you can move your car from lane to lane. There’s nothing to stop you from doing that. But if you go too far to one side, you’ll hit the median. If you go too far the other side, you probably go down in a ditch. So that was the empowerment is not just like everybody does anything they want to do. It’s there are there are boundaries around it. And but people need to know what those boundaries are. You can’t think it’s intuitive that they’re going to know. But if you’re in this, you know, if you’ve got room to move, you’re going to I think you’ll be you’ll be pretty happy. And I think that’s what I had. I had room to move.

Lee Kantor: Right. They were giving you autonomy. And you obviously have the expertise and the trust of the organization that they were letting you, you know, play out your ideas. Um, you know, within the parameters that were within the organization. So that kudos to you.

Janice Brathwaite: So it was it wasn’t am I saying it’s an easy transition. But I, I felt like, you know, you know, just take what you’ve learned and, you know, transfer it over into something bigger. And and this is what I really love about this is the creativity. I mean, I really love about being an entrepreneur. I love the fact that I can be creative and develop things. And, you know, um, you know, and I did I spoke at a conference in Vermont and, uh, it’s an intergenerational understanding in the workplace, which seems to be a very big topic these days. And I developed this tool for them and, um, that they could take to start the conversation around, what are our what are the things that we share in common as generations? And one of the things that might be different, and how do we work together with the differences. The things that are different. And and it came. It went off really, really well. I’m going to do another I’m going to do it again in Illinois in October. The conference at a conference. So, um, you know, so that is something that now people wouldn’t that. Well, let me just back up. Culture is a big thing. When people you say culture, people go they, they, they glaze over because they don’t know what you’re talking about.

Janice Brathwaite: But intergenerational understanding in the workforce is part of your culture. So all these things that are causing the problems that these organizations are saying, we we have difficulty with Gen Z, Gen Y. So the you know, that that’s part of your culture. It’s not it’s it’s not something you can’t work with. And the one thing I don’t like about the way people have been handling it is I don’t like people stereotyping other people. And I think once you send, you give those little letters to people. People start thinking of whoever’s in that group in a certain way, whether that way, that way or not. So I’m trying to make them stop thinking in a different way. Let’s get rid of that. You know, these are individuals. I’m sure when I came into the workforce, they said some of the same things about me. Oh my God, those boomers, they want everything. You know. They don’t want anybody to tell. Tell them what to do. They want to. Oh, they know loyalty to the company. I mean, sure, they said all those things. Nothing different than what they’re saying today. So why are we doing this? Why are we why are we assigning labels to people?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. It seems, um, counterproductive. I don’t think that’s helping. Um, it. I guess in some ways it’s a shortcut for people, so they don’t have to make the effort to get to know the individual. They just kind of make a blanket assessment.

Janice Brathwaite: Right. And so, you know, you see, you know what you think you see sometimes that’s what you’re going to see, right.

Lee Kantor: Exactly. You’re going to have a bias and then everything’s going to fit into it. You’re not going to give the person the benefit of the doubt. You’re going to just assume it just opens up a can of worms. And none of them are good.

Janice Brathwaite: Right? No, it’s it’s. So that’s the that’s how I’ve been approaching it and using like, um, employee resource groups to actually deal with this, this, this issue to get to people, get people to know each other on it, not just by their letter by whom, but by who they are.

Lee Kantor: Right. And going back to your values, like if we just put do things around values, there’s going to be a lot more commonality if you’ve chosen the right folks that have similar values.

Janice Brathwaite: Absolutely. That’s absolutely that’s absolutely right. Spot on.

Lee Kantor: Now, what is the what’s the typical point of entry for you in these organizations? The speaking. Do you come in to do speaking or you do a workshop and then, uh, that gives you kind of the credibility and then you can build on some successes to get, uh, more and more work from the organization.

Janice Brathwaite: Yeah. I think the right I’m seeing what I’m seeing now is that the speaking has become a way to really touch a lot of people all at the same time. You know, and rather than reaching out to the individual units, sometimes they bring all these people together. Just so happens is of a health care conference and in community health. And so they’re going to bring all of their community health centers together. So I’m talking to a whole group of people in different areas, and we’re dealing with probably different things and some of the same things.

Lee Kantor: Right. So. So, uh, organizations and associations are, um, having you come and speak on these, um, kind of topics to help educate their folks on different strategies on how to manage them.

Janice Brathwaite: Correct. That’s right. Now, as the hot one is and I started this with a college who wanted me to speak on this, which I thought was really interesting, but they had a workforce group, um, of employers that they wanted. They wanted me to speak to that was part of a program they were running. And, um, so I, I went out, I, you know, I put together a presentation and I realized when I was sitting in the room that as I was presenting, that people really are struggling with this. You’ve hit on something here, you know, and I said, you know, I mean, I can do a I mean, I could do things on value driven hiring. And, I mean, I’ve got a lot of different topics I can talk about, but right now, I think this is one of the pain points that organizations are really struggling.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Janice Brathwaite: Well, I’d like to get more opportunities to speak in front of organizations. And it’s not just healthcare. Um, I was in the for profit world for many years with Xerox, Motorola, you know, various various top mine companies. So I understand that environment as well, which I think is a plus. Um, speaking, you know, just reaching and reaching out to me, uh, if they’re on LinkedIn, I have a newsletter that I put out. Um, this month it was on, um, in the midst of a storm, and it was talking about the things that health care organizations are going through right now. And what do they do in the future if something comes up that they’re not expecting? Well, how do you how do you do like an emergency preparedness for organizational turmoil?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. So you’re available to speak when it comes to any type of this. Uh, culture, leadership, uh, the management side of things, the, um, you know, building resilience. It sounds like that there’s a lot of, um, topics to cover based on your expertise. And it doesn’t have to be healthcare because, um, you know, that you might have worked in healthcare for a minute, but these are kind of universal challenges for organizations.

Janice Brathwaite: Everybody’s dealing with them. You know, I, I have, uh, family members that are in the industry. And, you know, I hear them talking about things and they’re no different than what I heard people talk about in healthcare. So it’s it’s it’s universal. This is a universal problem. And, you know, unless people start using some tools to address this. This is going to continue. And you know the other thing. Now we have this thing around bringing people back to the office. Um, which is causing, you know, some just, you know, concern from employees. Um, and but, you know, I’m, I, I was a real advocate of, you know, working from home. I’ve kind of changed a little bit. I’ve taken a little bit of a turn because I do think it affects collaboration. And people say, well, we’re only on teams anyhow. Well, no, but you you do. I mean, I have the ability to have zoom when I was in the office, but we always had meetings, face to face meetings. You know, we didn’t go just on, on a zoom. And, you know, the late somebody down the hallway was sitting in their office. And I could have walked down there and had a conversation with them. So I’m, I’m I’m a little bit on the fence around that one. I don’t think it’s as good as people think it is.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I think you miss out on some of these accidental, um, conversations and being a fly on the wall. And there’s other types of ways to learn and interact and bond, uh, that it’s difficult to, um, to do over zoom or some of these virtual platforms. I think there’s a lot of value to just running into somebody and just chatting for two seconds and getting an answer, um, or getting some help or asking a question where it’s that’s a little trickier in kind of a virtual setting.

Janice Brathwaite: And if you can’t get the feel for how the person’s really reacting to this, right, a little box, but, you know, you you I’m sure you’ve been in many meetings yourself and you you can tell by body language, right going.

Lee Kantor: And then the a lot of young people are not learning how to read that, like they’re missing out on some of that kind of, um, not, you know, like you’re saying the body language and things like that, the more subtle nuances of communication that maybe are difficult to, uh, translate through a zoom call.

Janice Brathwaite: Exactly. So, um, yeah. And it can be a lot of, you know, misunderstandings. Um, I’ve seen it happen myself in zoom meetings, misunderstandings amongst individuals. And, you know, it’s just it to me, it’s it’s not as as productive as people think it is. And it’s. And I understand the reason why people want to do this. But I say to myself, before Covid, didn’t I go into work five days a week? And now, and I’m not the only one that went in. So what? What’s the problem? This was because we had an epidemic. People don’t seem to remember that. It wasn’t because, oh, the companies all decided you all can work from home now. You can work from home. I used to be able to work from home one day a week, maybe on a Friday, but I always had to ask if I could do it. And, um, so it’s it’s not, it’s not necessary. And, and people say, well, well, you know, when I’m, when I’m working from home, I can do other things, I can go places, I can take my kids. Well, what did you do when you work five days a week, right? Kids not go.

Lee Kantor: Anywhere. Somehow that got done somehow.

Janice Brathwaite: Yeah. Um, so, um, so I’m not really buying that. But my friends, my, I get a lot of pushback from my friends about this because they think that, you know, it’s it’s great. And, um, okay, FaceTime is good, but, you know, zoom, zoom, zoom won’t get you there, right?

Lee Kantor: Well, if somebody wants to connect with you, is there a website? Is there a best way to connect with you and your team?

Janice Brathwaite: Yes. Um, my email is Janice at WP transformation. Not with no s.com. I’m also on LinkedIn. Um, and you can reach me there where I post a newsletter every month. And um, and you know, I have a website that’s my, my, my website is, is WP transformations, uh, transformation um, dot com. And um, so they can get me at any of those places.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, Janice, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Janice Brathwaite: All right. Thank you so much for having me on.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Rhonda Nelson – Inspirational Speaker, Author, & Philanthropist

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Rhonda Nelson - Inspirational Speaker, Author, & Philanthropist
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Rhonda Nelson, renowned patient advocate, author, speaker and philanthropist is a beacon of resilience and strength.

Her charitable work spans championing equitable access to affordable healthcare, supporting those diagnosed with AERD (Aspirin Exacerbated Respiratory Disease), serving as a voice in the foster care system and encouraging women to reinvent themselves in their different stages of life.

Follow Rhonda on Facebook.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Overcoming the challenges of chronic illness and AERD.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. So excited to be talking to my guest today. We have Rhonda Nelson. She is a renowned patient advocate and author, speaker, and a philanthropist. Welcome, Rhonda.

Rhonda Nelson: Hi, how are you? Thanks so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m so excited to learn more about what you’re up to. Can you talk a little bit about your work as a patient advocate? How did that come about?

Rhonda Nelson: Well, it came about because I have struggled for over 20 years with pretty rare respiratory disease called e d, which is aspirin exacerbated respiratory disease. It took me about two years to get a diagnosis, and a few years to get to a point where I was, well, medically managed. And so I just through that struggle, I knew that there had to be other people going through what I was going through, and so it just became a passion of mine to advocate for patients with, but also navigating the, um, the insurance system and the medications that work well for this disease can be a daunting task as well. So while it’s not relatively well known, it has come a long way, and it’s in not only people, but physicians knowing about it and understanding about it. And so I’m just I want to be the voice, the voice of the disease, if you will.

Lee Kantor: So talk a little bit about what it feels like to be in that situation where something is obviously wrong and no one can kind of figure it out. Like how as a patient. Kind of do you make your moves when it comes to that? Because a lot of people just rely on whatever the doctor says. I’m just going to do. And when you’re just not getting satisfaction. How does a patient kind of maneuver around such a complex ecosystem?

Rhonda Nelson: Well, you make a really good point, because in a lot of my speaking and interacting with patients, you know, I talk about that because we we grew up kind of what the doctor said was the wherewithal and the be with all. And that’s what we did, and we pretty much didn’t question it. And throughout my journey, I just, you know, I wasn’t getting anywhere. I wasn’t getting any answers. I wasn’t feeling any better. I was feeling worse. And multiple trips to the E.R. when I would have exacerbations. And, you know, I just so I just dug I kept digging for research to point me in the directions. I studied just as much as I could about the disease, and then I just went to doctors that knew about the disease that, you know, I couldn’t find anyone locally, so I had to go where they were. That led me to learning about. One of the keys for me was to medically journal what was going on with me on a day to day basis. You only have a short period of time with your physician. They don’t know what’s going on with you. All the other hours of the days, of the months, of the weeks. And so to go in and, you know, say, this is what’s happening, this is what’s working. This is not what’s working. We have to find answers. So it’s so important for people to understand how you have to be your own advocate, even with your medical doctors. And it might be doctors you’ve been seeing your whole entire life for for a big majority of your life, but you still have to have that line of communication and, and and if you don’t agree with what they’re saying or what they’re telling you is not working, you have to speak up.

Lee Kantor: So let’s talk a little bit about medical journaling. I’ve never heard of that before. What does that entail?

Rhonda Nelson: So really it’s just keeping a journal of of what goes on with you, especially if you’re, you know, in my case, my flares would typically happen in the middle of the night. Why? Well, now, what I know is the reason early on they were happening is because I would, uh, you know, I would cough and I would sneeze and I’d have all these kind of horrific symptoms. And so I would take Tylenol PM to sleep because I now I can tolerate Tylenol. There are some patients that cannot I can tolerate Tylenol, but I can’t tolerate any other insects. So I would take Tylenol PM and that was causing me to have a reaction. And so I, you know, I started just like writing down these kind of things that were happening and trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together so that when I did see my physicians, I could say, hey, this is something that’s happening on a regular basis. Why is this? What do we do to control this? And it’s just because you I couldn’t rely on my memory to remember if I only saw my doctor once every six weeks or three months. I can’t remember every single thing that you know how a medicine was working. Tracking the reactions or tracking the progress of the medicine or new things that were happening to me. Um, you know, maybe during spring I would see an influx in flares, or in the fall I would see influx in flares, but I can’t remember all of that and be able to get that out in my short little window of an appointment with a physician, so I just started writing things down.

Lee Kantor: So you were keeping track of the like, kind of on a daily basis. How am I feeling? When am I having kind of a flare or an attack? Um, what medicines did I take that day? Maybe what I was eating or things like that. You were just kind of keeping track of kind of the minutia of the day, so that when you did go see a physician, you were equipped with kind of, okay, this is what’s happening, you know? And now I can even probably if you were so organized, you can mark on a calendar. These are the days I had a flare. And this is what I was happening in the day or two before each flare. So then that way in that meeting, it’s productive. It’s not you trying to remember. Oh yeah, it was a Wednesday. Like that’s that probably wouldn’t help the doctor kind of, you know, problem solve.

Rhonda Nelson: Right. Exactly. And it truly is. It’s like putting a puzzle together. And I mean, I, I say this when when I speak a lot, I, I say this about every condition or issues that you’re experiencing with your body. It doesn’t just have to be asthma or ARD or anything like that. If you don’t have a diagnosis or you’re seeking a diagnosis of what is wrong, it’s important to to document all of this stuff so that you can get the big picture so that your physician can get the big picture. You know, just that little 20 minutes that we’re in the office with them. You don’t you don’t get a whole lot of time. So you need to go in prepared and bombard them with as much information as you can about what’s been going on with you while you’re not in front of them.

Lee Kantor: Now, were you the one that concluded that it’s all, or was it the physician that figured it out?

Rhonda Nelson: It was the physician. So I had, um, when this first started happening, I was living in Nashville, and then my husband and I, uh, purchased a historic inn in North Carolina, and we had moved to North Carolina, and I was still struggling to get a diagnosis. And I happened to be referred to an allergist. And coincidentally, he had just returned from Denver, um, from a seminar about N.e.r.d. Now, mind you, this was in 22,002, so many years back. And and it still wasn’t very, um, it wasn’t as commonly well known as it is now. Um, it was often misdiagnosed because just of the symptoms that you have mimic so many other things. But when I walked into him and again, I went in with, you know, just with a ton of information about, you know, what was happening and what had been happening over the, the months prior. And he said to me, you know, you don’t have just asthma or you don’t have just nasal polyps and chronic infections, he said. I truly believe that you have a key, and the key was that I had documented enough to know that when I would take NSAIDs, I would have flares. And so and by flares I mean go into anaphylactic shock. And so that was the key. And he recognized it immediately.

Lee Kantor: And it was just kind of luck that you just happened to run into a doctor that had just come from a conference. So it was top of mind. It wasn’t kind of buried in the back of a book he read, you know, 20 years ago.

Rhonda Nelson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. That was truly that was truly a a stroke of luck for sure.

Lee Kantor: And then once you had the kind of accurately diagnosing it, then were you able to get treated in a way that now it’s manageable.

Rhonda Nelson: Yes. Um, so aspirin desensitization is one treatment for it. And that was pretty, um, pretty common and popular treatment for it, um, back in at that time. Um, so basically what it is, is that you just, um, you’re given aspirin challenges and you work your way up through the dosages and until you reach a plateau with no reaction. Now, in my case, because he had only done two in his whole entire time of practicing, um, he admitted me to the hospital and we did it in ICU, but also because my reactions to the aspirin were so severe. So it it was a day long process. And then once I reached Hundred and 50mg of aspirin with no reaction. Then what you do is you. You’re on a daily aspirin protocol. Now, that’s, you know, that presents its own challenges. You have issues with some people have issues with, um, it being hard on the stomach on the GI track. Um, obviously, if you’re taking, uh, high doses of aspirin when you have any kind of dental surgery or regular surgery or things like that, you know, you have to some doctors require you to back off. Um, so there’s all kinds of things. Fast forward to today. Aspirin desensitization is still done, and it is still considered a protocol that works well for some people when other things don’t work well. I am no longer doing that. I am on a biologic. There are biologic meds that are new that work really well for us patients. And so, um, that’s That’s what I take now.

Lee Kantor: So now, though, you’re everything’s kind of under control, and it’s manageable.

Rhonda Nelson: It is. Um, there are times when, um, you know, it’s a little more difficult, and I have to add some extra medicines along with the biologic. Spring and fall seem to be pretty big triggers for me. Um, but I don’t have any issues with, say, exercise induced asthma or anything like that that would cause me to have to use, uh, inhalers or things like that. Um, overall, I am very well managed and my polyps have not. Um, I’ve not had a regrowth of polyps like several, like many patients experience. Um, and again, the biologics are, are part of that, that they keep the polyps at bay. Um so that’s yeah, I, I feel blessed that I’m, I’ve found this particular, um, medication that works. But there are a lot of challenges with these biologics and with insurance companies. And then in other countries right now, they’re not readily available. So that presents problems for those patients as well.

Lee Kantor: So now that you’re spending a lot of your time kind of as a patient advocate in this area, are you finding that there’s a lot more people that are suffering for this than they’ve just been misdiagnosed? They didn’t even know that this was kind of where they were at.

Rhonda Nelson: Yes, and it is. We see that a lot. And and it’s I think the, the hardest part of the disease to diagnose is the aspirin sensitivity part, because if you’re not paying attention and you don’t and and again, this is where documenting this stuff comes into play. If you just randomly don’t know that you are sensitive to aspirin and NSAIDs, if you take them and you have a asthmatic attack or go into anaphylactic shock, but you don’t put two and two together, you can oftentimes miss that for quite a long period of time because, you know, we don’t I mean, most people don’t just constantly pop in saids and and aspirin for no reason at all. So, um, you know, you may someone may take it, have a reaction. Let’s say they’re taking it for a back ache. Their back doesn’t feel great. They do that. Their back feels better. They don’t take it anymore for a period of time. And then something else comes along. They have a headache, they take it and they have another one. So if you don’t start documenting these things, it’s it’s it’s difficult to catch that. That could be the denominator that you’re looking for.

Lee Kantor: Right. Because you’re not connecting the dots because they seem disparate like it doesn’t. They’re not the same. So you think that something else is causing it, not the medicine.

Rhonda Nelson: Correct? Yes.

Lee Kantor: So, um. Now, what was it like, kind of saying? Okay, now I have this. I, um, kind of I’m on the other side a little bit of this, and I want to advocate because that’s a I mean, that’s a big step to not just say, well, I solve my problem, but now you want to help other people with the problem. What was kind of the thinking around that, and why did you choose to do that?

Rhonda Nelson: Well, my journey with it was quite frustrating. Um, my husband is a musician and is on the road a lot, and so, um, there would be times when we would be in, you know, other cities or on the bus in the middle of nowhere. And I wasn’t well managed. And so I would have go into these anaphylactic episodes and, you know, have to be taken to the emergency room. And because we moved around quite a bit, just, um, you know, thinking that certain areas would be better climate wise for me. But then you, you know, you’re constantly chasing new doctors and doctors that understand what’s going on and understand. And the bandaid medication for it is prednisone. And sometimes, um, you know, for lack of understanding the disease, a doctor will keep you on, you know, doses of prednisone long term, which has its own right.

Lee Kantor: That’s a steroid. That’s not. Yes. Not everybody can handle very well for any length of time.

Rhonda Nelson: And the side effects of it are horrible. Um, you know, it does it does put a bandaid on whatever you’re taking it for, but it does have some horrific side effects. So through all of that, I just I knew that I wanted to be a voice for this disease because my husband is in little River band. I knew we had a an audience and a pathway to do that as well. And so it just really became a passion of mine. And then I got involved with Allergy Asthma Network, and I went, um, to one of their Capitol Hill days where you spend the whole day on Capitol Hill and you’re, um, just speaking to, uh, legislators and representatives about whatever current bills they happen to be working on. But that particular year, it was it was surrounded by, um, it involved a lot of bills based around asthma. And so that’s how I got involved with Allergy Asthma Network. And then that’s where really my advocacy passion started to bloom even more. Fast forward to today. I sit on their executive board of directors. And, um, you know, I just knew that is something that a lot of people struggle with. A lot of people don’t know they have it. It’s often misdiagnosed. And I just wanted to be that voice to bring awareness to the disease.

Lee Kantor: And that’s a great lesson for the listeners out there that you were a sufferer, but then you got through it, and you don’t want to just solve the problem for yourself. You felt that it was important for you to kind of leverage your platform and your resources to help others. And that probably gives you a feeling that a good feeling in terms of now there’s a Y and there’s, you know, you have work to do now. This is now. It sounds like it’s an important part of your life going forward, this kind of advocacy.

Rhonda Nelson: Absolutely. We’ve done a couple of fundraisers for, um, Allergy Asthma Network with the band And. And, you know, just to raise awareness for, ah, um, we speak about it when we I wrote a book called A Different Life and it’s, um, just about my life, my husband’s life, our life on the road, things we do together, um, to help organizations that are near and dear to us using the pathway, little River band, um, to help certain causes. And, um, so we we used to go out and do, um, songs and stories from the road and we would it would be myself, my husband and a couple of the other band members. And, um, you know, we would touch on, on D in those as well. And it’s just any way that I am able to talk about the disease, I always swoop up on that opportunity.

Lee Kantor: Now, what advice would you give other listeners out there, especially women that that would like to kind of tackle? This is a big project for for a lot of people to do what you’re doing. How how should somebody go about or what have you learned about going about tackling something that is such a large project? Is there some kind of do’s and don’ts you’ve learned over the years? Because obviously you didn’t just flip a switch and now you’re in the point. You’re right. Um, this was a slog, right? You had to suffer. You had to figure it out. You had to find the right allies, and then you had to really kind of find that lane for yourself so that you can be the advocate that you become. So any lessons you can share?

Rhonda Nelson: Well, here’s here’s what I think about it. I think any little thing that anybody does to raise awareness for whatever it is, whether it’s ARD or whether it’s any other disease or cause, um, nothing is ever too small. You know, I am blessed by the fact that I have the pathway of little River band to use and spread the word. And we can, um, not only for local but for other causes too, that are near and dear to our heart. And we can do fundraisers and we can do all kinds of things. Um, but for for others, nothing is too small when it comes to raising awareness for whatever is near and dear to your heart, whether you just do a something locally. Um, whether you do, maybe just a walk. You know, people do all kinds of walks for different diseases and organizations. Maybe you just make a donation and you just are passionate about it, whatever. Cause it is. If you’re if you’re talking about it amongst your family and friends, you’re raising awareness. And that’s what people tend to overlook, because just sharing it with your circle of people is raising awareness. So it doesn’t have to be something big and splashy and over the top. Um, you know, because you might be in a circle of friends and you’re talking about whatever the cause is you’re talking about, and it might trigger a light bulb in one of your friend’s head that says, hey, I have another friend that either if you’re talking about a disease is going through something that sounds similar, let me share this with them. Or if it’s a cause that you know is near and dear to them, maybe they have a friend that could benefit from cause or they become interested in it. So nothing that anyone does is ever too small. I think sometimes we get caught up by the fact that we think what we do is not big enough and grand enough, and that’s not really the case.

Lee Kantor: Right? So take some sort of action, because when you knock over that first domino, you don’t know what other dominoes are going to fall because of that action.

Rhonda Nelson: Absolutely, absolutely. So I’ll give I can give you a perfect example. Um. Go ahead please. Here in town where we live. And it’s called Eli’s house. And it’s a it’s a home that’s, um, started a little over two years ago, and I knew nothing about it. Now, I’m born and raised in Nashville. Um, we’ve lived here. Back here this time, two and a half years. But I knew nothing about this organization. And it just so happened that, um, a group of women that I’m in, one of them had found out about this organization and was doing a lunch and learn, and I found out about it. And it is something that is very near and dear to mine and my husband’s heart. It’s a it’s a home where women can go up to five women with their children, and they can live for up to two years. And they, you know, job mentors, um, financial mentors, they can complete geds. And just there’s so many resources that this home has for them now, there’s certain criteria they have to meet before they can live there, but nevertheless, they are. It’s not a shelter. They are in a home. It’s a home environment. They’re working towards, um, you know, being able to be out on their own with their children. And so it’s just it’s an amazing organization because I found out about that through a friend with this lunch and learn, we are now going to be doing a, um, benefit concert for them in December. And so, you know, that’s just a perfect example of something that I didn’t know existed. We’ve been aligned with other organizations like this around the country, and it’s just something that’s very near and dear to us. So through a friend, by having a simple lunch and learn, go eat a sandwich and, um, learn about this organization, I’ve now become involved with this organization and we’re excited to to do other things for them.

Lee Kantor: Right. And that and that’s a great example of this was in in your town and your neighborhood and you didn’t know it existed. And there’s so many kind of hidden gems out there that are doing good work and that it just didn’t come across your radar yet. But all it takes are those kind of random acts and, and you showing up for the lunch and learn or you, you being curious and and then that domino, you know, caused the next one and the next one. So no action is too small. So people, please take that to heart. And if there’s a cause that’s important to you, don’t you know, don’t make it, don’t keep it at best kept secret, you know, go out there and evangelize about it.

Rhonda Nelson: Absolutely. I and I just I feel like that, you know, again, people kind of get in the mindset of I can’t do enough for or I can’t do anything that’s big enough for the organization. And and again, I. I am a firm believer that whatever someone can do to help an organization is huge, right?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, there’s no act that’s too small. And don’t and don’t kind of, um, self-select out like you take the action, err on the side of taking the action. Don’t err on the side of keeping it a secret.

Rhonda Nelson: Exactly, exactly. So.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more about your book, um, a different life or the different works you’re, you’re doing as an advocate, um, or just kind of connect with you, is there a website? What’s the best way to kind of connect with you?

Rhonda Nelson: Yes. My website, it’s Rhonda nelson.com and it’s r h o n d a b as in boy nelson.com. And you can drop me a note there. Find out what I’m doing. Um where I might be. All of the good things also. Um Instagram and Facebook. Um, is Rhonda Nelson and I have some exciting things that are on the horizon that I’m going to be doing and really looking forward to. Um, just staying out there and staying active and interactive with everybody that I meet, whether it’s at shows or whether it’s at events that I do or things like that. Um, again, and just spreading the word, spreading joy and spreading the word about and the other causes that we’re involved in.

Lee Kantor: Well, Rhonda, thank you so much for sharing your story today, doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Rhonda Nelson: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll talk to you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Mindy Colbert With Colbert Consulting

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Mindy Colbert With Colbert Consulting
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Mindy Colbert, Political Strategist and Senior Political Advisor is the Founder and CEO of Colbert Consulting, an Indiana-based firm specializing in fundraising, strategic government connections and business and political advisory services.

With over a decade of experience in the industry, she has earned a reputation as a powerhouse in political fundraising and strategic networking, having set fund raising records and worked on two presidential campaigns. Her expertise lies in forging vital relationships for her clients, enabling them to achieve what would typically take years in a fraction of the time.

Her journey into the political sphere was inspired by her upbringing in rural Indiana, where her father, a farmer, served as a county commissioner. A graduate of DePauw University with a degree in English writing, she has leveraged her storytelling abilities to excel in the competitive world of political fundraising and strategy.

Her career highlights include serving as a senior political advisor and fundraiser for Indiana’s Governor Eric Holcomb during his two terms, earning the highest honor a governor can bestow, the Sagamore of the Wabash and being recognized as one of Indianapolis’ Best and Brightest.

Under her leadership, Colbert Consulting has become a trusted resource for clients navigating the political landscape. She is a graduate of the Women’s Campaign School at Yale University and a graduate of the American Enterprise Institute Leadership Network. Mindy’s approach is rooted in authenticity and relationship-building, ensuring her clients connect with key donors, government officials and influential stakeholders.

She also plays a pivotal role in shaping community initiatives, including her advisory work with Purdue University on the development of its Indianapolis campus. Her memberships in organizations like the Republican Governor’s Association National Finance Committee and the NAWBO Indianapolis Chapter reflect her commitment to creating impactful opportunities for individuals and businesses alike.

She is one of the nation’s leading experts in the art of political fundraising, guiding businesses in building strong organizational foundations and helping individuals navigate the complexities of political engagement. Her life is grounded in the values of family, faith and community. A leader from a young age and a 4-H champion, Mindy served as an active member in Indiana 4-H.

A proud mother of two, she balances her career with nurturing the next generation, instilling in her children the same resilience and sense of purpose that has shaped her own path. Mindy enjoys traveling with her family to other countries to show her children the world.

Connect with Mindy on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why it’s important for business owners to understand what’s going on in the political landscape
  • What can business owners do to increase awareness of the government
  • How to build a non-profit from the ground up- “from idea to impact”

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Mindy Colbert, and she is a Political Strategist, Senior Political Advisor, Founder and CEO of Colbert Consulting. Welcome.

Speaker3: Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Colbert Consulting. How you serving folks?

Speaker3: Yeah, we are a consulting business that specializes in fundraising, business strategy, also speaking and coaching. And we do political fundraising as well as advising businesses on how to get plugged into the political world and form a strategic giving plan so that they can become more visible for their initiatives.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Speaker3: Yeah, well, I think that my background and my upbringing had a huge impact on how I ended up in the political world and being an entrepreneur. My dad is a corn and soybean farmer in rural central Indiana, and so I grew up watching him run the family business and very much be an entrepreneur in his own right. Very much a self-starter. And then he also ran for and was elected as county commissioner, served multiple terms there. And so I helped him on the campaign trail. This was when I was in grade school. So I helped him on the campaign trail. I went to meetings with him and really saw firsthand how the political environment worked and what public service looked like. And so I decided I wanted to be involved in politics somehow. Plan to go to law school and ended up turning that down to to start a job for the Indiana Chamber of Commerce, fundraising for their political action committee, which is what we call a PAC. And it turns out I had some skills that just really resonated with fundraising. And so a few years later, I kept getting inbound calls saying, would you fundraise for us? Would you fundraise for my campaign or organization? So I definitely saw there was a need in the marketplace and a void I could fill. So I decided to go ahead and start my own business in 2012. I started out part time and went full time in 2014, and haven’t looked back since. I’ve had the privilege of working on some presidential campaigns, congressional campaigns, and most recently was a senior political advisor and political fundraiser for Governor Eric Holcomb of Indiana. And when he served two terms, and at the end of his term, I was at a crossroads with my business thinking, do I continue doing what I’ve done all these years working on multiple campaigns, or do I expand? And so I ended up expanding into advising companies on on how to get engaged in the political world. And like I said, how to give strategically so that they could have their initiatives more visible.

Lee Kantor: So do you mind sharing a little bit about the why business leaders should invest kind of in the political ecosystem? Is there some like because most business people I know, at least they just are trying to run a business like the political stuff is kind of either background noise or things they’re trying to ignore on purpose. Why is it important for them to maybe lean into it a little bit?

Speaker3: Yeah. You know, it’s funny you say that because you’re absolutely right. I mean, 77% of Americans avoid talking about politics because they view it as divisive. And and so I think it’s important for us to unpack kind of what I mean, in the context of politics in this case. And so I see politics as the vehicle and the destination is, is government and legislation. And so usually the divisive piece, uh, tends to be the, the, the legislation. Right. What, what comes out of the process. And so, um, I always tell business owners, if you if you’ve waited until someone gets elected to office to then voice your opinion of, of how things are going to affect your industry or your own personal values as, as a business owner, um, you’ve arguably waited too late. And so it’s crucial to getting involved in, in the election of, of those people, um, so that you can get aligned early and understand early where that person’s coming from and also be able to voice your opinion. And, um, I always tell my clients, you know, politics, uh, it affects your business. It can actually grow your business. And it is a business itself. Many campaigns function just like a start up business. And so, um, those are three key reasons why you should want to get involved.

Lee Kantor: And for the a business leader who maybe has never gotten involved, is there some low hanging fruit? Is there kind of a way to ease into that world?

Speaker3: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s a point of entry, um, no matter what your budget is. But. But I always tell folks, the first step is to find where you align. Um, Ronald Reagan once said, if someone agrees with you 80% of the time, that person is a friend, an ally, not a 20% traitor. And so, um, it’s going to be very hard to find anyone that you agree with 100% of the time. So I always advise folks to find where they align 80% of the time. Um, and then and then, um, go from there.

Lee Kantor: So what about like, if one, uh, party is kind of the, the majority today, you know, but it fluctuates over the years. Like, do you jump from party to party? Like what’s the kind of the ongoing strategy when it comes to, you know, choosing the right folks to kind of back?

Speaker3: Yeah, I mean, that’s that is, um, going to be based off of the entrepreneur and what their comfort level is. Um, I always say to folks who, who, who say to me, well, I’m not sure I want to give to so-and-so, um, Because I’m afraid of how it will affect my business. And I tell those folks, well, you aren’t afraid to promote your business, correct? And they’re like, no, absolutely not. I promote my business all the time. Well, um, your personal values align with your business, correct? And almost always our personal values are aligned with our business. And so I say to them, if you’re not afraid to align your personal values with your business, then why are you afraid to align your personal values with the democratic process that you know will ultimately affect your business? And so while this is not a one size fits all, um, type of a type of approach, it’s it’s very, um, sitting down and learning what is important to the business owner, what their objectives are, and then analyzing the climate in which in which their business resides. Um, there are some, some key points that that will be the guiding star regardless.

Lee Kantor: So once you kind of understand your true north, it’s you can kind of match up with the appropriate folks.

Speaker3: Yeah, 100%. And you know, like I said, the the politics affects your business. It grows your business. And it is a business. So to unpack that a little bit further, it affects your business because regardless of what your own, um, personal values are, who you may align with, more legislation that comes out of the political process by vis a vis, um, those elected into office, whether it’s regulation around the product you produce, whether it’s regulation around the service you provide, or maybe it’s even a change in tax climate, um, in which your business, um, um, conducts business. So regardless, it’s going to affect your business in, in some way, shape or form. And, um, then, you know, it can grow your business, which oftentimes people say, okay, well, how how could it grow my business? How is that possible? But what I say to them is, um, when you engage in the political process and you attend fundraisers because let’s face it, fundraising is the lifeblood of every campaign, and pretty much every campaign will have a gazillion fundraisers that you can attend, um, from large to small. And and so no matter what your budget is, you can be involved in that process. And what’s so great about that is, um, you will run into people there from all different verticals, all different industries, and I don’t really know of any other conference or or atmosphere where you can get access like that to, um, high level individuals from all different industries. And so these are all going to be like minded people who are vision driven, who are focused on collaboration and big ideas. And so no matter what vertical you’re in, um, it’s a great crowd to be a part of, um, to further your own business interests.

Lee Kantor: Now, you talk about fundraising and you’re talking specifically here around the campaign, uh, financing and things like that. Do you do work with associations and organizations that need to fundraise, like chambers of commerce. You mentioned that was an early part or part of your early career?

Speaker3: Yes, absolutely. And and so I’ve done virtually every type of organizational fundraising out there, every different category, political and nonprofit. And so, um, what’s really neat is there are some major differences between political fundraising and regular nonprofit fundraising. Um, but then there’s a lot of similarities. And so some of those differences are, um, I like to use the phrase runway, um, in political fundraising. The runway is very short. Um, you want to build capital very rapidly. Usually a campaign starts 12 to 18 months out from election day. And so you want to, um, raise a lot of capital quickly just so you can spend it down, because you have to spend your money to get your candidate’s message out and to get people to the polls. So you’re raising to deplete it. Then in the nonprofit world, usually that runway is much longer. You have a capital campaign and you are, um, building to a solicitation, and there’s a lot more leading up to it. And then once you are able to secure the gift, then, um, you’re also building coffers and you’re building for, for a much longer period of time. Uh, unlike a campaign where you want to deplete everything. So, um, those are some main differences, but but also the similarities around how to ask and, and, um, all of that are very much the same in both worlds.

Lee Kantor: Now, when we do a lot of work with associations like chambers of commerce and a variety of different associations. So this is um, maybe this is tangential to what you do, but from my understanding of like chambers of commerce, for example, they have advocacy is an important component. And there’s a political element to what they’re doing is the deliverable to their members. But the members that benefit maybe from the advocacy are these are the, you know, the the more enterprise level, larger organizations, the smaller kind of mom and pops that are part of a chamber of commerce, uh, the deliverable from the chamber standpoint back to them might be a little different than to the enterprise. Do you help kind of those kind of groups, uh, form a value proposition for each kind of, um, constituent?

Speaker3: Yeah. I mean, I do think that that what you’re referring to about the legislation that’s passed, I do think it benefits everyone or maybe not benefit, but impacts everyone, um, equally. And I think too, um, if you’re a smaller shop with, with maybe a smaller budget and you’re participating in the Chamber of Commerce, but but you want to participate in your own way as well. Um, there are various points of entry where, where you can make a direct connection with the campaign. It doesn’t necessarily have to be, um, through through the chamber or like, uh, entity. Um, you could walk door to door with the campaign and the candidate. You could make phone calls. You can volunteer. Um, being a part of that campaign apparatus is so important because, um, not only are you helping further that that candidate’s journey, but also, um, when when a candidate is, is looking to be briefed on a certain subject, um, nobody’s going to be an expert in everything, right? It’s just just impossible. And so if they’re doing debate prep or they’re, um, getting ready to do, um, an interview on a certain certain issue, then then they’ll probably want to be briefed, uh, in depth on a certain subject. And so when they’re looking for experts in a certain industry, um, they’re going to look first at the people that have helped their campaign, either financially or volunteering, because those are the people they know want to support them, want them to win, and they’re going to want to collaborate with those experts of industry to get their talking points and understand the issues at an even deeper level. And so, um, take for example, your, your, your mom and pop store example by getting in at the ground level of a campaign. Um, I’m sure small business issues will probably, depending on the, the, the type of race that’s, that’s at hand will come up. And so you’re, you’re in a prime position to, um, be called upon as an expert to say this is how this environment is affecting my business. This is what is working. Well, this is what we could really use some help on.

Lee Kantor: So you get kind of a seat at the table.

Speaker3: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So now, if you were to give advice for a nonprofit that maybe is building from kind of ground zero, how do you go from idea to impact?

Speaker3: Two different things. One, I think there are so many well-intended nonprofits out there. Um, I see it all the time and, and a lot of them are, are cash strapped. They are, I’m barely holding on because raising capital is difficult. There’s a lot of entities out there, and there’s a lot of breakthrough that needs to happen to get your message out. So first and foremost, if you’re looking at starting another nonprofit, um, I would look at who’s already in the space that aligns with you and look at where you can join ideas and join forces because, um, most likely someone that’s that’s already doing that, um, is is going to appreciate the collaboration rather than everybody trying to row in the same direction. Um, but but in different boats, so to speak. So, um, I think first of all, look at who else out there is, is aligning with what you want to do and already exist. And then secondly, um, what I found in my experience and, and this has been through, uh, the fundraising lane, but has really come together, um, on all different nonprofits. And that is authentic relationships. Um, part of why I have enjoyed the fundraising lane so much, and so many people come up to me and say, well, how did you get involved in that? Right. Um. The thought of asking for money for a living. Just. I think that sounds awful. And and to me, um, it’s all about hearing people’s story and, um, to to go back to my college days, I was an English writing major, and, um, my favorite type of writing that I did was profile work.

Speaker3: And profile work is where you sit down and you interview someone and you listen to their story and listen to their background. And I just really enjoyed that. And so, um, it really clicked with me one day of of why I enjoy the fundraising lane. Because, um, that’s what it’s been. I’ve been able to sit down with, with, with CEOs and thought leaders around the country and just hear their story of how they got to where they are. And, um, when you take out that transactional piece, when you take out that cold call mentality or sales mentality, and it’s just understanding why people are involved in the industry they’re in and how they got there, and make it much more about authentic relationships. It’s a lot easier, um, and more enjoyable to to get them on board for the common cause. And so I think when you’re putting a nonprofit together, it’s much the same. It don’t think about it as going out trying to sell something. Think of it as going out, trying to understand the void in the marketplace of of the nonprofit world and, and what people care about. And then they’re automatically going to come on board with you.

Lee Kantor: Is there a story you can share, maybe where a client came to you with help, or they needed help and and you helped them get to a new level? Uh, using the strategies and experiences you have, obviously don’t name the organization, but maybe share what their problem was and how you were able to help them.

Speaker3: Yeah. So there was, um, a company who, um, they, they did ambulance work and they, um, were dealing with some issues. Um, in in Texas. And so, um, they basically needed a way to, um, to flag some issues that were happening down there. And, um, there just wasn’t a good way for them to flag it. I mean, it could go through all the normal channels, but a lot of times those are sent to emails that that nobody ever sees. And so what happened was, um, I took the issue and I happened to know this is where the, the, the fundraising in connection world is, is so great because the world becomes very small. And, um, so it turns out that that person knew someone who knew someone in Texas. And so, um, we were able to connect the dots very quickly and, and get this person, um, connected to the folks in Texas that they need to get connected to. And as a result, many, many people were able to get their their health needs addressed that they weren’t getting addressed before.

Lee Kantor: So by being able to connect the dots and, and kind of tap into your network, they were able to benefit from your network directly because it accelerated the relationship building that they were able to do.

Speaker3: Yes. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of times this is about, um, you know, impacting the greater good, right? And, you know, I even remember, um, a long time ago when, um, uh, runways were shut down in, in, in Puerto Rico because of Hurricane Maria. And so, um, I remember getting a phone call of, um, you know, someone who just wanted to help. Right. And and we knew we want to get insulin there. There are people there that, that need their medications. And so, um, just being a part of a project to help get people medicine that they needed, um, that’s where, again, the world becomes very small. And, um, being a part of this network of, of highly influential individuals, um, there are a lot of needs out there that are being, um, served that maybe government can’t get to quickly enough. And so private industry steps in to to fill that void. And, um, it’s been really neat to see.

Lee Kantor: So who is your ideal client? What’s the ideal client profile look for you?

Speaker3: Yeah. So, um, it really spans, um, anyone from a startup business who doesn’t have any type of political apparatus, but they are looking to get involved all the way up to, um, very large businesses who, um, maybe have certain efforts, but they don’t necessarily have a strategic giving plan in place. They just kind of, um, go where the wind takes them. So, um, either type of company that in that regard and then also, um, specifically those who are looking to, um, have a bigger, bigger impact in Indiana. That’s definitely my sweet spot. But also, um, those, um, who might be looking for more visibility nationwide. And so, um, again, it’s not a one size fits all, but we can hop on a phone call and go through what kind of your, um, um, initiatives are and what you would like to accomplish and, um, can figure out if it does fit that kind of national profile, um, or is more individually state organized.

Lee Kantor: And if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive, uh, conversation with you or somebody on your team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Speaker3: Yeah, absolutely. It’s Colbert Hyphen consulting.com. And go to the contact us section and fill that out.

Lee Kantor: And it’s Colbert Hyphen consulting.com. Correct. Well, Mindy, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Speaker3: Thank you for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Lisa Gillette With BIGSKY Coaching & Consulting

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Lisa Gillette With BIGSKY Coaching & Consulting
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Lisa Gillette is an equal pay activist and former sports television executive turned ICF-certified leadership coach. She works with women working in male-dominated fields, helping them navigate gender bias, negotiate top-tier compensation, and lead with confidence at the highest levels.

Host of the podcast “Grace, Grit, Getting It Done!” Lisa founded BIGSKY Coaching & Consulting to help women rise – all the way into the C-Suite.

Connect with Lisa on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and Tiktok.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Her proudest achievement working in sports television
  • Why she decide to become a coach
  • Why does she focus on women working in male-dominated fields
  • Why did she create her training NEGOTIATE LIKE A LEADER

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Lisa Gillette, who is with BIGSKY Coaching and Consulting. Welcome.

Lisa Gillette: Well, thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Please share a little bit about big Sky. How are you serving folks?

Lisa Gillette: So big Sky Coaching and Consulting is a company I started after I ran away from corporate America. I escaped and I called it big Sky because I believe when you can see the big picture, you’ll find the opportunity. So I’m a coach, I’m a certified coach, and I’m also an equal pay activist. So I work primarily with women who work in male dominated fields. I help them navigate the culture and negotiate fair pay.

Lee Kantor: So what were you doing in corporate America? It sounds like there might be some scar tissue around that.

Lisa Gillette: There’s always scar tissue. Come on. I was an executive in sports television for the last ten years of my 25 year career.

Lee Kantor: So you were in sports television, a male dominated field. Did you? Is this where the equal pay activism comes from?

Lisa Gillette: Well, actually, I would say it’s been there all along because I started my career in TV, in cable. And I’ll be honest, I did not negotiate my first job offer. I was so excited to have health insurance. I just said yes. But two years later, when a competitor came calling, you better believe I negotiated that offer. So yeah, it’s so it’s been part of the organic development of of my career. Yeah. To ask.

Lee Kantor: And now this is something that asking about pay is something that not everybody is comfortable with. And I think women are probably less comfortable than men when it comes to this. What made you comfortable to negotiate, even at your second opportunity?

Lisa Gillette: You know, I my father owned his own company, and so he was a great business mentor to me. And he shared with me this one statement. He said, no matter what they ask you, no matter what they tell you, when you finally get a number, always put a big smile on your face and say, I am so excited about this opportunity. But I have one question. Is there any upward movement in any of these numbers? And it works. Then you lean back and you stop talking. And as many of us know, we’re really uncomfortable with silence. We may be uncomfortable asking, but we’re super uncomfortable with silence. So it’s a great negotiating strategy to just see if you can get a little bit more.

Lee Kantor: Now, I had interviewed a woman executive coach a while ago, and she said something to me This was eye opening to me, but it’s probably not for you. She said that most women don’t negotiate. They do what you did in your very first job. They’d say thank you, and then they walk away where most men will push back and ask for something else.

Lisa Gillette: Well, that’s not really shown in the data, but I did hear 60% of all people feel really uncomfortable negotiating men and women. But something I read in Forbes, oh, this is a couple of years ago. Many men can come to a negotiation feeling like it’s a sports event. They’re going to play and they’re going to play hard. Many women feel that to negotiate is almost like a conflict. It’s like sitting in the dentist chair. You just sit there as still as you can. You wait for it to be over, and you walk out feeling like, oh my God, I got out of there. So, you know, to your point, a lot of people are uncomfortable. But one of the things that I really don’t believe is that it’s women’s fault that they don’t ask because women are asking, but they need to ask in a way where they I call it bringing the receipts. You’ve got to show your return to the bottom line. You’ve got to show how you contributed and helped the company reach its annual goals. Whether it’s a new job offer, you want to show how you did it in your last job or a current, you know, promotion and a title in your new role. You’ve got to bring the receipts and you’ve got to speak about it in a way. So it’s a conversation and you make it a win win for everybody. And I think those are the effective strategies that men and women both can use.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you made the transition from sports television to coaching, was that transition difficult or did you kind of organically leave in a way that you set yourself up for success as a coach?

Lisa Gillette: Well, what was really interesting is I was mentoring a lot when I was in corporate and the very first time that I actually mentored, and this was my big aha moment. I, um, I was at a breakfast meeting, an industry organization, and it was for women, and we were talking around the table about, hey, what are the biggest challenges and the biggest opportunities, I think. The I think the question was, what do you love about your job and what do you not like? And the woman across the table from me burst into tears. She started. She said, well, I my boss chose me and I was like, oh my God. And I jumped up. I ran to her. I put my arms around her and I said, oh, you’re not alone. And I thought for a minute I don’t recognize her. Does she work in my company? Because my boss shouts at me too. And so I realized at that point, okay, I need to figure out how to deal with difficult people. I need to figure out how to find out what people’s biggest pain point is, and understand how I can offer them a solution. And so that was one of the things that I’ve always had done, and especially when I, you know, I worked in two cable networks and one MSO before I got into sports.

Lisa Gillette: And they were not necessarily male dominated unless you went into master control. And then primarily the engineers were men. So by the time I got to sports, I had a really good idea of, okay, let me be a problem solver. I know there’s a way I can fix this, but I need to create buy in first. So one of the things I did I was especially in my last role, I pitched a lot of multi-million dollar projects, and they didn’t want to give me the money until I was able to convince them the ROI, the return on the investment by giving me, you know, $10 million. I was going to save them 20. And so that just sort of became how I started. I just realized I needed to coach. And quite honestly, Lea, when I left corporate, I bummed around. For two years, I traveled all over the world, and then my college roommate, God bless her, said Lisa. You always said you were going to go into coaching. What’s up with that girlfriend? It’s like, oh yeah, I did. And so I got certified and I realized what I’ve been doing all along was mentoring, not coaching. And so now I do both. So that that was the transition.

Lee Kantor: So how do you kind of delineate between mentoring and coaching.

Lisa Gillette: So that’s why I have coaching and consulting in my my company’s title mentoring is literally saying okay how did that work out for you. What would you do different next time? Let me give you a roadmap. I know this about your skills. Coaching is. How did that work out for you? What would you do different next time? What have you done in the past you might be able to use here to solve this problem? It’s all questioning.

Lee Kantor: So when you start providing kind of the roadmap or the here do these four things, that’s when it it’s no longer coaching.

Lisa Gillette: It’s mentoring. Yeah, that is mentoring.

Lee Kantor: And is that and is that different than consulting or is mentoring and consulting kind of similar.

Lisa Gillette: For what I do? I call it consulting, but it’s literally mentoring. And isn’t that what a consultant does? They come in, they assess the problems. They tell you, here’s what you really need to improve, here’s what you’re doing well. And if you want to get to that next level, here’s steps one, two, three, four.

Lee Kantor: Right. Well some of them do. You’re paying them to do it for you.

Lisa Gillette: Oh okay. Well that’s true but I would call that an independent contractor. So I think that’s just a difference in terms. But yeah, you could hire a consultant or a vendor to do what you need them to do to execute.

Lee Kantor: Now, sometimes when you’re working with your clients, are they looking for you to do some of the work or are they or I mean, you have to be clear upfront. That’s like, you’re going to have to do all this. I’m going to make recommendations, but ultimately it’s your life and your choices.

Lisa Gillette: So I’m a member in good standing and I want to keep it that way with the ICF, the International Coaching Federation. And they have a very clear protocol about what coaching is and is not. And so coaching really is very simply asking the empowering questions that allow the client to get a deeper perspective. Just come up one step, one step on the track, one step on the ladder, get a wider view and then understand, oh, I am good at XYZ or I’m not good at x, y, z. So I need to hire a team who is because that’s not my strength just to get that deeper perspective. So there’s a very I just got a client yesterday and we had exactly this conversation. And the first thing I always ask, what’s your experience of coaching. And from that it will lead me to either explain more or less depending on what they know.

Lee Kantor: Are most people nowadays kind of have. Have they had coaching experience or they’ve heard of coach? I’m sure everyone’s heard of coaching at this point, but have they actually been coached at some point?

Lisa Gillette: Well, I would say it’s about 50 over 50 with my clients. Um, I know that when I was working in corporate, the worst thing that could happen to you as an executive was to be assigned a coach, because that meant that you weren’t performing. And it also gave the company reason to at some point say, hey, we tried to help you. You’re just not executing. We’re not going to pick up your contract. And that’s why I really don’t work in the corporate domain, because what I really want to do is offer people coaching support so they can make the choice about, should they go work someplace else? I’m not going to drive that train. They need to. How comfortable do they feel negotiating? One of the things that I did recently was I created a negotiating framework with an online course with a playbook that’s full of strategies. And so for people who don’t necessarily want coaching, they want to learn the step by step framework to negotiate top dollar. I’ve got an online course for them. So everybody’s different. Everybody has different needs. I do have a coaching protocol that I use. And literally it is how to earn trust. So simple. How to gain respect, how to get recognized and how to ask so that you’re rewarded. And I take everybody through that. But everybody is at different places in that protocol. So it’s a very individualistic kind of coaching I do with each individual client.

Lee Kantor: Or most of your clients, kind of high level executives that are looking for more. Or are they kind of more at the earlier stage in their career and they’re aspiring to be that high level executive?

Lisa Gillette: So I have a group coaching program for people who are, you know, managers or directors. And then the prime primarily my clients are more senior and many of them are thinking, do I leave and start my own business because I’m you may have heard of the leaky leadership ladder. Boy, can I get all those L’s out. Um, many women and some men get to that role. Where I got to. I was right underneath the C-suite, and I looked at everybody in the offices, and I was like, I don’t see any skirts there. Everybody is Richard or David or Michael. And that’s when I was like, okay, time to take my coat, say goodbye and leave. So I do have some clients that are at that place. I have many clients who are trying to get from that VP to that SVP rule. I can think of three right now that I’m working with, but I do group coaching with more junior women.

Lee Kantor: Is there anything you’ve noticed is a thread that kind of, ah, signals that maybe a woman is going to be successful in their career and get to those highest levels when it comes to maybe playing sports as when they were young. Oh yeah.

Lisa Gillette: Oh, yes. That’s. You’ve done your research, haven’t you? I bet you have. Yeah. Because it teaches you how to play on a team. And what’s that expression? Boy, I heard this the first time I started managing. There’s no iron team, and you need to learn how to work with others. And that’s the thing. You’re not going to work with people who you would choose as friends. And so you have to be able to work with all sorts of different people and get the job done. So yeah, that’s one criteria. I think another criteria for women who can succeed in a male dominated field is that they’re able to shake off what I call male pattern misbehavior. There can be a lot of testing. Um, pretty early on in my career, I had the great fortune to build up three post-production facilities. And I remember the first meeting I was in with some vendors I had. I was a director at the time. I had my manager with me who happened to be a man. And every single question was directed towards him. So I just sat there and I smiled. And then at the end of the conversation, they looked at him and they said, well, are we going to sign this deal or not? And he said, you need to talk to my boss. And he pointed to me, and the expressions on the faces were priceless. Now they did not end up winning the job, but not because of that. So I think women who are able to just kind of go, okay, it’s game on, let’s go. I can handle this. I’m not a fragile little flower. And you do kind of have to have that mentality to succeed in a man’s world.

Lee Kantor: And when you’re working with these women leaders, is there something that they’re doing that is kind of self-sabotaging in your mind? Or is it something that they just didn’t learn it like? What do you think is is what’s holding them back?

Lisa Gillette: Well, I mean, can you define holding them back, not getting into the C-suite? Is that what you mean by.

Lee Kantor: Well, it’s they’re not getting to where they’d like to go. I don’t want to say something stopping them, but they obviously, if they’re hiring a coach, they want something else than what they have.

Lisa Gillette: They want another opinion and they want some expert support. And I would say one of the biggest things that holds women back is that idea that, um, do your work, keep quiet, you will be recognized and you will be rewarded. And that might work in school. But in the corporate environment, if you cannot speak to the talent, the expertise, the experience you bring to the table, no one else can or will do that for you. So many women feel very uncomfortable talking about their accomplishments. And one of the things I coach around is how to authentically speak to your past accomplishments by quantifying it, not just. I led a team of 48 people. Okay, great. You’ve had management experience. Doesn’t mean you’re a good manager. I led a team of 48 people. That was we were actually able to reach our quota every year. In fact, sometimes we reach beyond it. We achieve beyond it. We were continually successful. We had a great retention rate, we had late turnover, and we were one of the most productive divisions that everybody wanted to work with. See how I just quantified that kind of talking off the top of my head? Women feel uncomfortable doing that.

Lee Kantor: And and you have to remind your boss or your or your client of what you’re doing. Otherwise, sometimes they just take it for granted.

Lisa Gillette: Well, they just if there’s no problem, they’re not they’re going to go, okay, everything’s running fine and they’re not going to know the details. You are exactly right. Exactly right. And that can happen in a general reminder. Um, one of the things that, um, I always share with my client is, oh, you got a new boss or you got a new job. So if you had someone new working for you, what would you want them to ask you? And they normally say things like, well, do I want an email or a text or a phone call? And I say, great. How do you want them to communicate with you? So then I respond by saying, how important would it be for you to have that conversation with your boss and ask them how they want you to communicate with them? That’s the coaching protocol, right?

Lee Kantor: Mhm.

Lisa Gillette: So that I think is something that is super important for any woman is to be able to ask, to be able to communicate. And I provide a lot of what I call customizable scripts. So if you’re going to have that difficult conversation. What’s the best way to do it is to say you, you know, the other person, you say you seem to be upset or you seem to have an issue, I can I help you with this? We can figure this out together. So you immediately take the focus to the other person who’s you do. This is a coaching tool. Acknowledge and validate. Anyone in your situation who had just lost their best team member, of course, would be wondering how they’re going to replace them. That’s a legitimate response. How can I help you with that? Can I recommend some people who might be able you could hire. We can figure this out together. So that’s a really simple script that I provide. And that’s one of the things I do that I think is a little bit different than many coaches is I provide scripts that can be customized once we’ve identified what the initial obstacle is. Then I’ve got a script to navigate around that, and that’s because I had to do that. So it’s all based in past experience.

Lee Kantor: And it’s based on these are things that are going to happen in a lot of cases. So be ready for them and you can prepare ahead of time. Is it reminds me of a story my wife was doing, uh, annual review. She she worked in corporate for a long time, and she’d have an annual review. And then the first time she had an annual review kind of took her. I mean, not that it should, but it took her by surprise, and she was like, trying to remember all the stuff. And then from that point forward, she just made a folder. So whenever something happened, she just put it in the folder so that she had the receipts. Like you said at the end, she was ready. So then the annual review took her just a few minutes because she was just going through the folder that had all the receipts.

Lisa Gillette: Exactly. That’s exactly right. I call it logging your wins, because we know that the human brain, let’s face it, the human brain is not to think, create or ideate. The major reason we have brains is to keep our bodies safe, right? There’s so much that goes on in our brain behind our conscious thought. So the brain is trained to remember the bad stuff instead of the good stuff, which is why it’s critical to keep a log of wins. I help the company, uh, close this deal. I help the company reach their annual quota. Um, you know, the president of the company said. Great job on that presentation. Write it all down. Yeah. Yeah. Your wife learned very quickly. Is she coaching now?

Lee Kantor: Uh, she’s not coaching now, but she’s, uh. I mean, when she told me she was doing that. I’m like, everybody should do that. Like that.

Lisa Gillette: Exactly.

Lee Kantor: It takes all the stress out of it because it’s like you said. And there’s also a recency bias where you only remember what just happened. You know, in the last month you don’t remember ten months ago.

Lisa Gillette: Exactly. Like what did you do for me today? I’m forgetting what you did for me yesterday. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: So, um, who is that ideal client for you right now? Is it somebody that is kind of needs to negotiate? Is that kind of the point of entry? A lot of folks have when it comes when they’re coming to you because they’re in that. I gotta triage this because I don’t know, I don’t want to miss out an opportunity, so I want to negotiate properly.

Lisa Gillette: Um, I do a lot of that in my group coaching with younger women. Um, that is, I would say, the big sell. I don’t know how to start the conversation. I don’t know what to say. I feel uncomfortable saying it. Um, one of the things that I love that you said about your wife is log your wins. That’s one of the things I do in my online course, which is, you know, what are the steps to prepare? How do you do the research? Formal and informal. Um, one of the things that I think many people forget, and it’s so important is if I would say to you, Lee, I know you’re an expert in radio broadcast. I know you know how to interview. Could you give me some pointers? You’re immediately going to go to me, Lisa. Of course. I’d love to help you. So when you have to negotiate a salary, you want to have your data. You want to have your formal data. And there’s so many websites right now out there that list salary ranges. And what’s happened now in the last ten years is most job descriptions will list a salary range. That wasn’t the case so much when I was working in corporate. You really had to ask and dig. But if I wanted to go talk to a male counterpart and say to him, Bob, I don’t know why I use Bob, it just pops up. Bob, you know, Bob, I you’re really good at your job, and I know you know this industry. If I was looking at this title with this number of years of experience, do you think a range from X to Y would be fair.

Lisa Gillette: Or is that below market? Now Bob is going to go. Oh, she thinks I’m an expert. I’m going to share my opinion. And so that is a great way to do informal research. And I tell all my clients who are negotiating. You have to go talk to your male counterparts to get the real deal. I mean, here there was a study done well, maybe five years ago, I don’t. I think Pew might have done that Pew Research. I’m not sure. Don’t quote me on that. But they found out that most recruiters today working in corporate America always go a little bit higher with the salary for women versus men, for the very thing you said, because most women don’t negotiate. Now, the research says 60% of men and women don’t. But look at the cultural norm, the societal expectation. Women don’t ask. Women are supposed to be there to help. They’re not supposed to be there to execute there. They don’t ask if recruiters are thinking, well, I better give that woman like another 2000 Thousand, in the salary total because she’s not going to ask. Then you’ve got to come in with your research when you do ask. Because one thing I tell my clients, if you don’t ask, the answer is always no. So be prepared. Do your research. Have your numbers. Have your receipts. Have those quantifiable contributions to the bottom line. Document it and bring it all in. And then make the conversation a win win.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you. What is the best way to connect is that. Do you have a website? Is it through LinkedIn?

Lisa Gillette: Do you have a website? And I am on LinkedIn. So I would say one really easy way to reach me is big sky. Big sky dot. I had to get a vanity URL and a vanity email. Big Sky is my website. There’s a bunch of free stuff there, and there’s also some other stuff that if you want to spend just a little bit of money, there’s a strategies playbook. There’s also information about my online course. And you could also reach out to me on my email, which is Lisa Lisa at Big Sky Dot coach. I use the phrase big sky for my company because when you see the big picture, you find the opportunities. So Lisa at Big Sky Coach or Big Sky coach, that’s the website and you can contact me either way.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Lisa Gillette: Well, thank you, Lee, for this opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Jennifer Whitcomb With The Trillium Group

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Jennifer Whitcomb With The Trillium Group
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Jennifer Whitcomb, Principal of The Trillium Group is a seasoned leadership and executive coach with over 25 years of experience working with leaders across five continents. Renowned for her ability to help leaders navigate complex challenges, she partners with clients to enhance their presence, clarify their vision, and create actionable strategies for growth and success.

Her coaching philosophy centers on the belief that leadership development is an ongoing journey. She specializes in helping leaders unlock their full potential by fostering self-awareness, resilience, and authentic communication. Through a customized, results-oriented approach, Jennifer empowers clients to identify obstacles, leverage their strengths, and achieve their most ambitious goals.

Her coaching process is collaborative and tailored, providing a confidential space for leaders to gain new perspectives, broaden their skills, and receive honest, supportive feedback. Jennifer is known for her warmth, integrity, and practical wisdom, helping clients move forward with clarity and confidence.

She is a former Director and faculty member of the Leadership Coaching Certificate Program and Organization Development Program at Georgetown University. As one of only 4% of coaches worldwide to achieve the Master Coach Certification, Jennifer is recognized for her commitment to excellence in the coaching profession.

Outside of her coaching work, she enjoys making award-winning jam and playing pickleball.

Connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • When to consider working with an executive coach
  • How to choose an executive coach
  • What are the advantages of working with a coach

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio in. This is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Jennifer Whitcomb and she is with the Trillium Group. Welcome.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Thank you. We appreciate to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about the Trillium Group. How are you serving folks?

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah, so I work with people now for over 30 years and primarily in leadership development, and most of my work now is one on one. I tend to work with senior level executives to help them with whatever they may be faced with at the time and, and to be more successful so they can put their best step forward.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with a senior level executive in this type of executive coaching is that usually because that individual raised their hand and said, hey, Jennifer, I’m interested, or is it something that organizations now are just saying, you know what, we have to put our leadership team, you know, we’re going to pair them with coaches to get the most out of them.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. I think that’s a great question, Lee, because I swear, like it. It happens in all kinds of ways. Like primarily my client is the organization and sometimes there’s a succession plan going on. And so people are being tapped to be the next leader of their area or another area. And then they may say, hey, it might be helpful for you to work with a coach to help you prepare for that. And other times people say, hey, I’m, I would love to work with a coach. Can you please find one for me? So I just doing some work now with somebody who just selected me to work with her and she volunteered. She said, hey, I, I really feel I’m at a place right now. I’m dealing with a particular challenge and I want a coach to help me with that. So all kinds of ways people come and it may be part of a an existing leadership development program, and they’ve got a pool of coaches that they want to use to support that that effort.

Lee Kantor: Mhm. Now when you’re working with a person coming from one of those two ways, is there a different way you approach that or is it kind of the same from your lens?

Jennifer Whitcomb: I would say it’s the same. I mean the the client is of course my organization and my client is also the client themselves. Right. So I want to make sure that that everybody gets the results that they’re looking for. And often the organization wants a particular result and then the individual may want a result. And so I look at how do I bring those two together so that everybody’s happy.

Lee Kantor: So is that that to me is where it could possibly get tricky, because how about after talking with the, you know, the the client, not the organization, but the, the executive, the they realize maybe I shouldn’t be here in this organization like that. That’s kind of the outcome.

Jennifer Whitcomb: That that, um, that often comes up. Right. Because it may be, especially if they raise their hand to say, well, I want to work with somebody. And usually as part of the process, I will ask the organizational client if I’m to work with this person, what happens if that person decides that they do want to leave the organization? And it sometimes happens because people beget more self-awareness, they start learning more about themselves. They get clarity about what their values are. They start questioning things. Am I in the right role? Am I in the right job? Is this the place for me? All of those things. Right. So and I think it’s, it’s part of for me when I’m doing my contracting to make sure that I ask that question. And, and if they say no, well then that’s not the client for me. Right. So yeah.

Lee Kantor: Right. So you address that upfront because that is a possible outcome that, you know, from dealing with these type of people that, that that could happen. Um, yeah. And you have to be the you’re kind of advocating for that, that executive. Not necessarily the organization might be your client, but you can’t just not talk about things.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Right? Right. And and then it becomes a bit of a conflict of interest. Right. So you’ve got to be very careful about like, so who is the client. Right. And I think most of the time it is the organization. And when people say, well, I do want to make a a career change, then I’ll say, well, like I’m probably not the one for you, right? So it just it just depends, right? It just depends, you know, what’s the level of clarity and agreement with everybody before we even get started?

Lee Kantor: Right. And then it’s important to be transparent for all of the parties so they understand that they can comfortably share something with you.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes.

Lee Kantor: Right. Because that that’s a that’s one of the key components of coaching, right, is to to be able to be vulnerable and share these things that maybe you wouldn’t or you are kind of struggling with.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Exactly, exactly. And so and I want to create that environment where somebody can feel that way too. Right. So and sometimes the organization is quite happy to say, yes, you know, it’s totally fine if, if you talk about that because either the position is going away anyway or it might be ready for that person to make a move. So they’re quite supportive of that. And it’s just good to know that up front.

Lee Kantor: Yeah I mean I think that in order to really serve everybody, you have to have that level of transparency and authenticity in order to, um, you know, create the best outcome for everybody because the organization, it’s good for them to know that, oh, this person’s got one foot out the door. I’d rather know that today than in six months after I’m investing all this time into them.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. And money. So. And then you know and I’ll, I’ll sometimes suggest like if the organization is great with it, fine. And if the organization is not, I say, well, that’d be something you want to do on your own. Right. Find a nice career coach for you to work with.

Lee Kantor: Right. Well, I mean, so what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Jennifer Whitcomb: Well, I was, um, I was doing a some different work, and I’d always had a background in training and development and working with teams, and, um, I noticed that a lot of my colleagues were were moving over to coaching, and I’ve always enjoyed working one on one with people. And I was informally doing that as part of when organizations would work with me around their team. I’d interview the leader, and sometimes that would be where I would start is to work with the leader first before bringing it out to the team. Um, because sometimes I would do some assessment and talk to people, and I would get information about the leader that I would give to the leader because they’d ask for it. And I said, well, I’m wondering if you and I should start working together.

Lee Kantor: You might have some blind spots.

Jennifer Whitcomb: What’s your level of openness around that?

Jennifer Whitcomb: So. So, so often we would and then I think, you know, the field of coaching was, was just getting going. And I thought, I think it’s time for me to start, you know, learning more and getting trained as a coach. So so that was it. And then, um, I had run Georgetown’s Organization Development Certificate program at one point, as well as running my consulting practice. And then, um. And then I thought, huh? So then there was a coach, a leadership coaching program, and then I ran that program. And so I got to see all my colleagues again in that program. So it was all very interesting how we, a lot of us made that transition.

Lee Kantor: Mhm. Now are you seeing more and more organizations, um, embracing coaching as just part of this is just part of how we do business now that we provide coaching for at least the leaders. And hopefully in my dream of dreams, it’ll trickle down to all of the employees. But is it at least getting comfortable as just kind of a a? It’s not a nice to have anymore. It’s a must have.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah, I think it’s really changed and I think it’s continuing to change and evolve. So when I first started getting involved in coaching, I think a lot of people weren’t really sure who it was, a specially the potential recipient of coaching. They thought, oh my gosh, I’ve done something wrong, right?

Lee Kantor: Like fix Bob. Like that’s why, you know, you’re exactly.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And I mean, there still is some coaching out there. That is what I call more on the on the performance side or something’s not working and we’ve got to fix it. And um, and, and yet I would say that has changed quite a bit, where people are realizing that more and more people in the world have had coaches, especially some famous people like Oprah and, and, and, and Bill gates and and.

Lee Kantor: And every professional athlete.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. And professional.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Athletes. And so I think it’s it’s becoming interesting. And I hear the word coach used for so many different things, like a wellness coach, a health coach, a fitness coach, which is, you know, you’ve heard that before, but I think the word coach is being added to lots of different things. Nutrition coach. So, um, so I think it’s just becoming just a very more, um, more common these days.

Lee Kantor: Mhm. Right. There’s no. I mean, I wouldn’t think there’s a stigma anymore about coaching. Um, maybe at one point, like you said early on it would be like, why do I need a coach? You know, I’m fine.

Jennifer Whitcomb: But yes. And in one organization I work with, it was it was viewed so positively. Where. And this is when I was doing a lot of in-person meetings, and I’d be walking down the hall with somebody and they’d say, hey, meet Jen. She’s my coach.

Lee Kantor: Right. They’d be bragging about it. It was a status symbol.

Jennifer Whitcomb: I’m proud that they got selected to that one. Right. It was a Betty right now.

Lee Kantor: Um, when a person’s choosing a coach, is there kind of some do’s and don’ts that you found over the years that, okay, this is going to probably Be a good fit. If if this. If these things happen in this manner.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah. And I think it’s about, you know, what’s the right time to have a coach. Like I think like in, in one, 1 or 2 cases, I probably didn’t ask enough about just what their capacity was to be able to build this into their schedule. Right? So I usually work with people like a couple of times a month, 2 or 3 times if I can like, or within 2 to 3 weeks. And um, and some people, especially if they’ve got like a really busy schedule with travel and if they’re an exec that’s flying all over the place and it’s just it, or they’re in the middle of a merger and acquisition or something, it may not be the right time. Right? Um, or they’ve just got too much going on. So that’s one thing that I really ascertain, you know, this is an investment in you. And, um, and there’s some things that, you know, I want to make sure that this is the right time for for you to take this on. Because even though, like, I’m very sensitive to people being being very busy not to sort of have a lot of extra things between the times that we meet. But I think that’s important, and I think really getting clarity about what’s bringing them the coaching and is coaching the right answer for them, because maybe there’s something else that would be better, right? Um, and I think as they’re choosing a coach to really hopefully have a selection of people that choose from. So in my firm, I, I usually have like a handful or like six people that clients can choose from as to who they could work with. And then they usually interview a handful of people just to see is there the right fit? Is that person going to give me the best type of support I want or the best challenge that I want? Um, and I think for me, I’m a little bit biased. Lee. Is that. Um, I, I hope they choose a coach that has been trained to be a coach. So, yeah.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned the time aspect of this, and I think that that brings up an important part of coaching, that the coaching experience is not just the 30 minutes or hour you spend with the coach. Right. There’s going to be pre-work homework, and it’s going to open up kind of cans of worms that get people thinking. So it’s not, oh, I can just knock this out and like boom, boom, boom, I have my session and then I’m done. And I don’t have to think about it for two weeks.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes, I think that’s, I think that that sometimes that people don’t realize and and it’s not that it’s a lot, but it’s, it is something to think about. Can they have the focus to dedicate this time to. Write. Can this become a priority? And and it may be where like between the times that we meet, I might have somebody reflect on something or they may or we come up with that together. And usually I’ll ask, so between now and the next time we meet. What’s something that you think that you can, you can work on to help move the needle forward to your goal that you want to achieve here? What might be one small thing, right. And they’ll say, well, can you send me a short article or I’ll, I’ll, I’ll try this on. And sometimes it’s if it’s a behavioral thing then, you know, where can they have a little bit of practice. Because there needs to be enough time between when we meet for them to try some new behaviors on, try new things. Um, so there’s someone I’m working with now that, um, he’s his, um, his stress is leaking, put it that way. So, um, and so, you know, so between now and the next time we meet, he’s really working on on just his engagement with people and having some practice with that. And one of his colleagues will give him some feedback on how that’s working. Right.

Lee Kantor: Right. But but he has to actually do it like it doesn’t work. Right. It doesn’t do that right. It doesn’t serve a purpose. Like, yeah, I should do that. And then you meet in two weeks and they’re like, yeah, I should have really done that like that. Yeah. Nobody is benefiting from that.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And I think the funny thing, Lee is, is like like I hold people accountable. And that’s part of being a coach. It’s it’s just not a nice conversation. It’s it’s just like, so when we check in next time I’m going to ask you.

Lee Kantor: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And the we really are working on getting from A to B here.

Lee Kantor: Right. And the right answer isn’t yeah I heard you. It’s I did something, you know, something an action actually took place.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And folks I’ve been working with a while for a while ago okay I now I am now going to report to you what I’ve done. And I feel like you’re my probation officer. I said I’m.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Not.

Jennifer Whitcomb: I just am invested in you getting to where you want to be.

Lee Kantor: And. And they’re the ones who came up with the thing they wanted. You know, they they are the ones who have that objective. You didn’t make it up like it’s their objective.

Jennifer Whitcomb: It’s all about them. Yeah. So I have a good laugh, right? Yeah. It’s good.

Lee Kantor: Now, are you finding that young people are. I don’t want to say demanding, but it just are asking for coaching of some kind. Because I feel that young people are very attuned to their mental health. They’re attuned to, you know, wanting to, you know, be their best selves. And if an organization can really provide this type of leadership, it can really help themselves in terms of retention and, um, even recruiting new, new, uh, employees if they can, you know, serve their existing clients through something like coaching.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. No, I totally agree. And because I, because I finally like I work with a lot of folks who are more at the at the, at the.

Lee Kantor: Right, probably at the top end of the organization.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And I, I often think like, like. And I do think now coaching is becoming much more available to, to employees, which is great because I think if they can learn some practices that, let’s say, help them manage their stress. Right. If if they do get stress or manage their priorities or whatever it is, because, I mean, I work with somebody recently, for example, who she was so exhausted. Right. And and I think it was because she wasn’t really clear on what her priorities were. I’m not sure where the alignment was with her boss. Right. On what she should focus in on. So I tuned in on that. I said, well, that may be a place to look at. Right. Um, and let’s have a look at your calendar. Right. So just even things like that. But I think to know some of this before you get too far along in your career is so helpful, right?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I agree, I think that, um, I think organizations are missing out by not kind of democratizing coaching and bringing it to all levels, because I think young people are so hungry for this. And and, you know, I would hate for them their first experience with coaching. Be some AI chat bot.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Exactly. Which is what’s happening in some places. Right?

Lee Kantor: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: So I think just.

Jennifer Whitcomb: I think just to help them, if it’s it really sometimes it’s about self-awareness. Like what are you noticing about yourself about like when you’re your best self and what helps you get there.

Lee Kantor: Right, right. I mean and if you can picture your best self and then have the realization of where you’re at and see that gap, and then have somebody that’s kind of with fresh eyes looking at your situation that can ask you questions that help you kind of shrink that gap. I think everybody wins when that occurs.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes, I totally agree, I totally agree.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Um.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. I think it’s becoming more available and I hope that continues. And like you say, just to have a real person as well.

Lee Kantor: Right. I think that that’s critical, I think. I think organizations are going to be making a mistake if they think like, oh, there’s an AI, you know, coach chatbot that we’re going to give to everybody. And we they’re we’ve done it coaching for everybody. And I think.

Jennifer Whitcomb: There’s and I think it’s just there’s just even like nuances about, you know, when somebody gets really quiet for a moment or you hear some emotion in, in their voice, um, or if you’re even in a on a camera to see something in their face, like it’s picking up those cues that I don’t think the AI bought. Will.

Lee Kantor: Right. I mean, how much of communication is nonverbal? I mean.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah, exactly. 80% or something. Right.

Lee Kantor: So it’s we’re just going to ignore that and think we’ve solved the problem. I mean, that’s ridiculous.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And I and I sometimes think it’s what people don’t say. Right.

Lee Kantor: Right. Exactly.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And I’ll say, huh? You got really quiet there. What’s going on?

Jennifer Whitcomb: And they go, oh, you’re always, I guess, my job. I’m sorry.

Lee Kantor: I pay attention, that’s what. That’s why you hired me. I’m. I’m actually listening to what you’re saying. I’m. I’m not going to let you just blow by that. Sorry.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. Uh huh.

Lee Kantor: Well, this must be such a rewarding work for you.

Jennifer Whitcomb: I really, really love it. I I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I still really enjoy it. And, um, and I just get very excited when I get a new client and I think, great, it’s time to start, you know, something new. Somebody’s got some new goals and and they’re excited and engaged, and they want to work with somebody to help them be their best self. Right?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And and you get to see kind of the result too. It’s it’s not like some people just do a job and then they never know what happens next. I mean you’re kind of living it with them. Mhm.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah. So true.

Lee Kantor: So who is the ideal client for Trillium.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Oh I think somebody for me anyway is um a senior level leader who is interested in improving themselves. They want to be a better leader perhaps. Or perhaps they’ve got like a juicy challenge or something’s going on that they want help with and that they’re open to coaching. I think that’s the key thing.

Lee Kantor: Is it is there is there something that’s happening that’s kind of like a if this is happening, you might want to consider coaching. Is there like is there kind of signs or signals or breadcrumbs for you that say, you know what, we I get a lot of my clients when this is happening and maybe they are to open their mind to coaching at that point.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah. I think just um, it’s it’s often when just like, you know, I’ve got this challenge going on. Um, I worked with somebody, um, for example, recently who, um, she was new in her role, and the team had been there for quite some time, and she began to pick up that, um, that the team wasn’t really, uh, trusting of the previous leader because she would ask people to do things and she couldn’t figure out where the where the blockage was or where the holdup was, or she tried to have these transparent conversations and people weren’t really forthcoming. And I said, well, tell me a little bit about the history and, and, and how did you come to get that role? Right. So things like that. So I was able to help her have, you know, some difficult, challenging conversations with some of those people. And now she’s doing amazing, right. I mean, and I would think it was about her showing her vulnerability and and she’s such a kind soul. And I think it took them a while for her, for them to see that. But I think that’s a, um, an example where someone like myself can just really help somebody. Right?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, absolutely. Because I think that a lot of times just having somebody to just get stuff out of your own head, yes is useful.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Right. And I think sometimes it can be like the, the new role or even like navigating the politics of an organization. Sometimes people don’t realize that when you go up the next 1 or 2 levels, it’s it’s a little bit different. And really discovering like, so who are your allies and who do you need to build relationships with? Right.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And to have a person at your side, I mean, especially as you’re kind of climbing that ladder, it’s it’s got to be a must have at this point. I would think for most people that are really trying to just keep, um, you know, kind of growing as a, as an executive leader, like, you have to have that kind of voice on your shoulder that’s saying, hey, think about this or think about that or, or, you know, don’t think about this.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah, I really agree. And and I think sometimes people will tell me, like, I’m the only person they can talk to.

Lee Kantor: Right? Because if you think about it like, who else can really fill that role? I mean, like a lot of times their spouse is that doesn’t have the same kind of, uh, you know, situation that they’re in. Their friends are not, uh, you know, the probably the right people to be sharing some of this stuff with. And most people have a hard time being vulnerable, uh, as it is. So to have a trusted kind of adviser like this, I think is critical.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes. Because. Because I hold everything in confidence. Right?

Lee Kantor: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And hopefully create the space that people can feel, that they can tell me things. Right. So I think, you know, especially during the pandemic, I mean, there was someone I worked with that was he was, um, sleeping on the couch in the, in the office right at night. And, and I could tell just by looking at him, he was just, I mean, beat, right? Just so exhausted.

Lee Kantor: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: And he said, oh, I’m so glad I can talk to you today.

Lee Kantor: Right. It relieves weight. I mean, it takes weight off of their shoulders and, and and I would think just the I know for me personally, when I have somebody that I can just kind of just say all the stuff that I’ve been thinking. I feel lighter.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Mhm. Yes, exactly. Yeah. That’s the goal. Like oh get be lighter and get to where you want to be. Right.

Lee Kantor: Right.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Learn some new things maybe some things that you can. You can apply the next time this happens. Right.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And it’s not a weakness. Asking for help and to have. Sometimes you need help and sometimes you need helper, you know.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yeah, exactly. Because I know myself, I can get in my own way. Right.

Lee Kantor: Right. So if somebody wants to learn more, um, and get on your calendar or learn more about the Trillium Group, what is the website? What is the best way to connect?

Jennifer Whitcomb: I would say the website to reach out to me via email. Linkedin. Yes. Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: And the website is the Trillium group.com. Trillium is trillium.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Yes it is. Mhm. Yes. And trillium. Just so you know because it’s a long one. Um, I had no idea when I started my business that we were going to have to have all of this happening with, you know, putting it out there. So I would have chosen a shorter name. Yet. The trillium is the emblem for the province of Ontario, and that’s where I’m from. So I’m Canadian. And so I wanted to have a name of my company that was relevant to where I came from.

Lee Kantor: There you go. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing your story, doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Jennifer Whitcomb: Oh, and thank you, Lee, for chatting with me. It was just fabulous.

Lee Kantor: All right, this is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Diana Oehrli With Oehrli Coaching & Communications LLC

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Diana Oehrli With Oehrli Coaching & Communications LLC
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Diana Oehrli, Founder of Oehrli Coaching & Communications LLC.

She is an ICF-certified coach, wellness advocate, Substack writer, podcaster, and executive director and trustee of a charitable foundation. Drawing on wisdom from five of the world’s longest-living cultures—and holding a 2nd-degree black belt in Shotokan karate—she integrates real-world wellness practices into all of her work.

A Barnard College graduate and great-grandniece of philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce, Diana blends intellectual rigor with lived experience. Sober since 2006, she holds certifications in Designing Your Life, Tiny Habits, and Recovery Specialization, and completed Harvard’s Certificate in Lifestyle Medicine.

She splits her time between Manhattan, Newport, and the Swiss Alps, where she maintains a private practice exclusively focused on serving high-net-worth clients navigating the pressures of privilege and the complex challenges of generational wealth.

Connect with Diana on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • The wealth wellness paradox
  • The five-culture longevity authority
  • The contrarian business model
  • In vivo vs in vitro coaching
  • The Costa Rican chef partnership (in planning)
  • The longevity investment opportunity
  • Protecting wisdom from corporate culture
  • The future of executive health

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio in this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Diana Oehrli and she is a Coach, a Writer, and the Founder of Oehrli Coaching and Communications. Welcome.

Diana Oehrli: Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about early coaching and communications. How are you serving folks?

Diana Oehrli: Well, I work with folks in groups in one on one sessions, and I help them get healthier and find purpose in their lives and find more success.

Lee Kantor: And so what’s your backstory? Have you always been a coach and involved in this line of work?

Diana Oehrli: No no no. I started off as a as a cub reporter, a journalist, and I worked for community newspapers in Rhode Island. Then I transitioned. I’m half Swiss and half American. My dad was a mountain guide from the Swiss Alps, and I moved to Switzerland to take care of my grandparents. And while I was in the Swiss Alps, I worked for the local newspaper here and started an English language magazine for or co-founded an English language magazine for sort of wealthy clients that come to stud, which is a fancy ski resort here in the Swiss Alps. And so journalism and newspapers and magazines have been my my past career. I still write because I have a blog called The Pressures of Privilege, where I write about the good and the bad side of having wealth and privilege. And I’ve in 2016, I got I started becoming a coach, a life coach, and then became an executive coach. I graduated from the corporate coaching program at coach U You and I. I just love helping people one on one. And, uh, and I sorry, I married the my background as a writer and my my love of helping people through the one on one work I do with them and through the groups that I also lead.

Lee Kantor: So do you have kind of a niche within the coaching realm that you focus in on?

Diana Oehrli: Yeah, I think more and more I’m finding that like the wealthy have a health crisis, they have a too much choice. They complicate their lives. You know, they want longevity, but they get sort of blocked. Some of them, they, they, they love using fitness trackers. But then when it comes time to actually implementing what they want to change, they, you know, they get sidetracked. And, you know, a lot of there’s a lot of factors that play into that, including isolation, feeling like not trusting some, you know, not trusting others. And also this sort of hyper agency which which I don’t know if you know what that is, but it’s the ability to change your your your lifestyle because it becomes uncomfortable. So I focus a lot on that.

Lee Kantor: Do people who have that level of wealth, do they feel a sense that I’m very good at something that obviously because I have a lot of wealth, so therefore I can just translate this to my health at, you know, a drop of a hat.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. I mean, they that’s why these trackers, you know, these longevity trackers are so popular, but it takes more than just an eye chat bot and a hoop to to get you healthy. I think what’s what they’re missing right now. And this is sort of I think this this goes beyond just that, that one demographic. I think we’re seeing, you know, sort of the rise of AI and the depersonalization of, of coaching and therapy, actually, people are turning to ChatGPT and other kind of chatbots to find relief and to find advice and to find support And but, you know, 38% of communication is nonverbal. So, you know, I is missing a lot actually. And actually some chatbots are actually quite dangerous. Um, they, they’ve they’ve been known to give bad advice. And uh, so, you know, there is there is a cultural marker with the wealthy that they just are very distrustful and they, they tend to isolate. And so this, this right now we’re in this perfect storm where, you know, we’ve got probably the greatest wealth disparity in history, uh, combined with this technology that is making it easier to isolate. Um, and so I’m trying to focus on that and trying to get people to kind of go back to common sense and to in person, um, in person activities to help them feel better.

Lee Kantor: Now, are they receptive to this idea? I mean, they must feel that there is something a little off or they wouldn’t be tracking stuff. Yeah.

Diana Oehrli: Well, it’s it’s strange. Like, I think now it’s pretty popular to not drink alcohol. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that, but there’s a lot of, you know, celebrity people who are who have given up drinking and it’s, you know, um, and it’s become like an inn thing. And, and there’s also a rise in like non-religious spirituality. People are into going to 12 step meetings. They’re um, they’re actually talking about it on podcasts. And, um, so I think that we’re at a really good and an interesting point right now where I think there’s some that get it, um, and there’s some that don’t. And I think a lot of them are using booze to compensate.

Lee Kantor: So they’re using alcohol to compensate. But but they’re not drinking the alcohol anymore.

Diana Oehrli: Some are and some aren’t. But yeah. No, what I’m saying is that we have two things going on. On the positive side, you know, there is it’s pretty popular to not drink right now. Um, and, and, and the rise of 12 step meetings that people are now embracing that more and there’s, there’s, there’s less, um, um, stigma when it comes to mental health now. And it’s also more common that, you know, commonly known that the more mentally healthy you are, the more productive you will be. So, so there’s there’s an interesting thing happening where on one side, things have gotten tougher for for people to get healthy, but on the other side it’s getting easier. And um, and. Yeah. So I’m, I’m. Yeah.

Lee Kantor: So so you’re just you’re trying to help them kind of navigate through this. I mean, it’s obviously a disruption because like you mentioned, on one side, you have this wealth disparity. So they have to see that. And they have to either say, oh well that’s the way it goes. Work harder next time. You know they have to have some rationalization to make themselves feel okay about being on the good side of the wealth disparity, but also they realize that something’s missing. That they’re still struggling. Uh, at least emotionally or mentally in some areas, or else they wouldn’t be, you know, taking all these steps to track things if they didn’t think it was worth tracking.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. Yeah. And they also have lifestyles that are not conducive to mental health. You know, you know, living, um, living all around the world, not having, um, community that’s consistent. Um, you know, going to places where they’re, you know, where they get less taxed, but then they, you know, they’re kind of they’re kind of rootless. They they don’t belong anywhere. Um, that those, those, those make life more difficult. And, and also there’s sort of this whole sort of guilt about about the climate. To add to add to it all. Um, it’s not easy. There’s a lot of pressure that people with wealth have that, um, make it harder for them to, to lead healthy lives.

Lee Kantor: And then on the flip side, they have the resources to take the steps necessary to kind of solve the problem if they really, really wanted to.

Diana Oehrli: They could. But a lot of them don’t. And it’s weird. And I think from what I understand about human nature is that it’s our thinking, you know? Uh, humans can get into negative thinking cycles, and if you think negatively for long enough, it’s going to create depression. And then where do you go when you’re depressed, when you’re you’ve got this, these these negative thought patterns. Who are you going to trust? It’s very. And then, you know, people who are very wealthy are really afraid of being taken advantage of. You know, who are they going to trust in their circle, you know? Um, so it’s, um, it’s I think it’s quite difficult for them.

Lee Kantor: So when you started working with them, did you have kind of an aha moment of, I’m going to be able to reach this person. They’re going to, you know, I have the skills, the unique skills because of my background, because of, uh, what I’ve done in my life that I’m going to be able to kind of open their eyes to a healthier path.

Diana Oehrli: Well, I’ve been writing this blog called The Pressures of Privilege, where I write about some of these struggles that people have. You know, some of my clients have had people I’ve known, friends I’ve had, and people have reached out to me and they’re like, wow, first of all, you’re pretty courageous, Diana, to write about this because it’s it’s kind of like, you know, being wealthy people love to hate rich people, but they also love them. They sort of glorify them on, you know, the sort of the cult of celebrity. They love to glorify them, too. But it’s usually people don’t want to read about, you know, the poor little rich girl, you know, they don’t have a lot of sympathy for for rich people. Um, so a lot of my friends and people who are reading my stuff have have commented and said, wow, that’s pretty courageous that you’re writing about this. And a lot of them have said, Diana, you’ve got it. You know, you’ve actually tapped into exactly the struggle that people with wealth are having. And, um, and, and, and I, you know, I think now it’s. Yeah. So I think they reach out to me because they read my stuff and they and they identify with the stuff that they’re reading.

Lee Kantor: And then have you, um, started coaching some of these folks?

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. Yeah, I have, uh, I’ve been coaching since 2016. Now I, you know, obviously I haven’t only coached people who are wealthy because, um, in order to get the hours to become ICF certified, you know, I had to, to log a lot of hours. And, uh, and honestly, I love helping people no matter. You know what? You know what background they have. I’ve. I’ve had a, uh, a sliding scale for people who can’t afford me at times. I will give away some of my time. Um, because I just think that’s the right thing to do. Um, but, um, I think that it’s easier to work with people or who, um, you know, who kind of like me, you know, who have had sort of who’ve lived in multiple countries who understand the pain of, you know, not belonging anywhere but being everywhere. If that makes any sense.

Lee Kantor: So when you start working with folks, uh, when it comes to let’s just tackle this kind of lack of community that seems to be, um, you know, more and more commonplace that, uh, and, and, and some people have even attributed to the lack of drinking. Actually, I’ve heard some people say that that’s not helping when it comes to especially young people, you know, socializing and pairing off and things like that. Is there any kind of advice you give people to at least dip their toe into reconnecting in the real world with, you know, an actual human being?

Diana Oehrli: Well, I’m a big fan of 12 step meetings. I mean, that’s that’s my background, but not that’s not for everybody. Um, but I there’s there’s so many groups and, um, like church, I don’t know if you’re a big churchgoer. Um, or or hobbies, like I practice. Um, I’m a second degree black belt in Shotokan karate. I derive a huge amount of community through the dojos I belong to. Like, I moved to Sarasota because of karate at one point. Um, and and Sarasota down there has a wonderful community where they go out to dinner after training. Um, and, and I never like, even though I didn’t know a soul in Sarasota, I never felt lonely because I had that community there. And, um, so I think finding a community somehow whether, you know, depending on your interests. So it’s important.

Lee Kantor: Finding your people like that’s important to kind of find people that kind of at least are like, you believe in what you believe in and are interested in a similar thing, at least as a place to plug in and find kind of a safe space where you fit in and, and, uh, you can meet a lot of people, probably in a pretty short period of time.

Diana Oehrli: I also really do believe in this sort of non-religious spirituality. I think that, you know, more and more people are espousing that, whether it’s going to yoga or doing martial arts or, um, I don’t know, do you do anything like that?

Lee Kantor: Lee? Um, what I do, I mean, the way I meet a lot of people is in my business. Um, part of what I do interviewing people, I meet most of the people that way. And a lot of my work is done in person, face to face. So I. I’ve met a lot of my closest friends just through doing the work that I do. It’s just kind of built into the fabric of the activity. Um, and that happens to coincide with one of my interests. I’m curious. I’m interested about business, and I like learning. So when I interview people, um, it just kind of helps me build my community that way.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. When I worked for newspapers, I had the same. I was so curious. I loved doing, uh, you know, profiles on people, like, what makes people tick, right?

Lee Kantor: Right. And just, um, I mean, I try to have a beginner’s mindset and just want to, um, learn and not judge and just try to kind of my role as the host of these shows. I try to be kind of the listener of what would they ask? And I don’t, even though I may or may not know something about what they’re doing or what their, um, you know what their business is. I tried to ask. Kind of that beginner’s question. Uh, to help them articulate, uh, the heart of what they’re doing and to really get them to share their passion and their wisdom.

Diana Oehrli: Nice. Well, you’d make a great coach.

Lee Kantor: Well. Thank you. Uh, but, um. Now, getting back to your work, is there any advice you can give people like you? You came from a journalistic background and then got into coaching. Was that kind of a shift? Do you have to to do different things in order to kind of grow a coaching practice or, uh, because on one side, it sounds like your activity as a journalist, the writing and blogging has kind of opened the doors for you to get, you know, at least the eyes of the people that you’re trying to coach on your work and then on you.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. I’m also doing a podcast, by the way, which is really a lot of fun. So I’m in your shoes sometimes too. And I love it. It’s so fun. How did I switch over? Well, there was a period in time when I moved out of the Swiss Alps to a city in Switzerland, and I didn’t know anyone, and and I was writing a memoir, and I was feeling really lonely, and I was working and and let me, let me back up a little bit in order to move to the city. I worked with a coach to help me with that transition. It’s it’s hard to move as a single mother with two kids, um, out of a place I loved. But I did it to give my kids a better education. I worked with a coach who helped me with that process, and through that process, I realized the power of coaching, actually. Um, and then while I was working on this memoir, I was feeling a little alone. I missed being in an office. You know, having colleagues to talk to. So I decided to become a coach myself. And, um. And I loved it. I realized I realized all my blind spots. Thanks to coaching. I realized that, you know, when I run a newspaper back in, I had become. I was a general manager of a community paper in Newport.

Diana Oehrli: I had done an organizational change. I actually computerized the business. We went from, you know, waxing boards to sending the entire paper digitally to the printer. And I and I did that in a very kind of, um, um, dictatorial way. I didn’t get buy in from the staff. I just said, this is what we’re going to do. And we did it in like a two weeks time. And it was kind of a bumpy transition. I would do that differently today. I would get, you know, the whole staff to to understand what was going to happen. And we were going to do it. And I would have it, I would have them actually come up with how to, how to do that whole transition. And I realized, oh my God, I have a lot of blind spots that I need to work on. And um, coaching really, really put, put a light on what I needed to work on myself. So I’m grateful for that. And, uh, and it’s a and it’s a consistent it’s a continual growth. Like I find that, as you say, this sort of beginner’s mindset. I feel like I’m always a beginner. I’m always learning and and growing, and I love that. That’s that’s one of my values, actually.

Lee Kantor: So you mentioned kind of coaching in a, um, kind of offhandedly coaching in a business setting. Are you seeing more and more businesses embrace coaching as maybe a benefit to their people in order to help them kind of become the best them while they’re there at the office?

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. It’s interesting. Um, when I have clients go, you know, they do like the Wheel of Life, um, exercise where they, you know, they sort of look at their whole life together, including their, their romantic, you know, partnership, health. Um, there’s a section called Spiritual and Personal Growth. And they always ask me like, what’s that? And that’s I see that as, like leadership fits under that. And part of leadership is being Self-Aware and and that’s that’s usually why companies hire coaches to help their leaders develop their leadership skills so that they can get more out of their their staff and get more, you know, the happier staff. If you’ve got happy people working for you, you’re going to get more productivity. Um, and, um, and especially here in Europe, I mean, I live very close to to Lausanne and Vevey, which is where Nestle and Philip Morris have their headquarters. And they, they, they definitely use coaches to, um, to improve, you know, productivity within their, uh, leadership teams.

Lee Kantor: Is there? I mean, I think there’s an opportunity to bring coaching to the entire staff, not just the leadership team, especially with this hunger amongst young people. And like you mentioned earlier, their embrace of the 12 step programs or therapy or even, you know, they’re even like you said, they’re kind of going even with these AI chat bots there. They’re so hungry for more kind of self-knowledge and and embracing this self-awareness. I think there’s an opportunity for businesses to really lean into coaching to help their, their whole staff, um, become just their best selves in order, which will in turn, I believe, improve productivity, improve, uh, employee retention, improve, improve acquisition of new talent because their employees are going to want their friends and people they love as part of the team as well. Mhm.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. But it’s so hard for people to solve problems at work if they don’t have a place to go that’s confidential. That’s, that’s neutral. Like they don’t I don’t have a vested interest in any you know, in, in my client’s outcome. I just want them to, to reach their goals. So you know sometimes they don’t have a like. I had a client once. Who? He wasn’t a CEO. He he worked for a big multinational company and he was having he wanted to quit his job. And he came to me and he he started talking about why he wanted to quit his job. And he started to talk about communication with his boss. And I had him, do you know, like a map of communication and how the communication worked within his firm? And while he was drawing that map, he he all of a sudden had a light bulb moment that made him realize what the problem was, communication wise with his boss. And he realized that he didn’t want to quit his job, but actually he could solve the problem. So sometimes it’s just finding somebody who’s not in your world, who’s completely neutral, who doesn’t have a vested interest, who’s you know, who’s sign an ethical agreement to keep everything confidential like a therapist and who can act, who can ask open ended questions and use certain tools to kind of like get into somebody’s creative side to come up with solutions that they have the solutions within themselves. So I don’t believe in this. Like I, I’m also designing your life coach. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that.

Lee Kantor: No.

Diana Oehrli: Um, it’s, um, it’s the most popular elective at Stanford University. It’s, um, a course that was created by an engineer and a designer for students who were becoming disillusioned with their chosen major. And it’s it’s the most popular course there. And they use creative thinking to come up with, you know, to design their lives literally. And there are all kinds of really cool creative exercises that we use to help people come up with a plan, you know, prototyping different, you know, options. And, um, yeah. So yeah, I’m forgetting what I was saying, but the, uh, using designing your life, for example, with, um, with, with clients is super powerful because once you get them out of there, um, like, kind of like they’re you get them into a more creative way of thinking. They actually tap into what they really want. Oh, yeah, I was I was going to tell you about in vitro versus in vivo. And this is something that I learned from Bill Burnett and and Dave Evans at Stanford, the two professors. Um, in vitro means like through glass, literally, literally. And that’s a type of coaching where people have a course and you do, you know, chapter one, chapter two, chapter three. And literally only 10% of people who buy courses online actually finish them. I mean, I’ve got a bunch of unfinished courses. I haven’t I haven’t finished because it’s I’m just not unless I have a deadline and somebody I’m accountable to. I just have a really hard time finishing those courses. Um, in vivo is meeting the client where they’re at. So I have a wealth of information and knowledge I can teach a client who comes on a call, but I’m not going to say, well, we’re going to go chapter one. Chapter two. I’m going to say to them, well, what’s going on? Like, why are you here? Why are you asking for help? And then we, we dive right into the very thing that they want to address, you know, in the session, rather than having them go through a course. And that’s how I prefer to work. It’s very individualized.

Lee Kantor: And then is that more effective? The people stay with it longer. If it’s kind of dealing in the immediacy of whatever their issue is at that moment.

Diana Oehrli: Yes, definitely. Yeah. That people resist having to do a course unless they’re getting like some kind of educational credit for it or I mean, I just I just finished a course at Harvard on wellness coaching and, you know, lifestyle and wellness coaching. And I finished it. And it was great because they had homework and they had deadlines and they had, you know, they had zoom calls. I thrive in that kind of an academic environment. But if it’s going to be an asynchronous course where I have to finish stuff and there’s nobody really expecting my work, I have a really hard time with that.

Lee Kantor: So when you’re kind of on your own and they’re saying, here, do these, you know, whatever, this ten part course and there’s tests at the end or whatever deliverables at the end, that’s people tend to not do that, but if it’s kind of in the moment and you’re working on it in real time, on real things that are important to them, they will, um, stick with it.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. Well, actually, this Harvard course had some little quizzes, which were quite fun. They were like puzzles and, um, so maybe that’s why Harvard has such a name. Because they were able to deliver, you know, academic content in a way that actually is palatable. I’ve actually signed up for a lot of courses that I found very difficult to get through, not because it was hard, but because I just lacked the motivation. But in terms of coaching, um, I just love being coached, by the way, um, in order to be a coach, one has to be coached the same way that therapists need to have therapy if they’re going to be therapists. Um, I actually also have a therapist, so I’m constantly working on myself and and and trying to be, you know, trying to walk the talk. You know, if I’m going to help people with their health and wellness, like I’m working on my own health and wellness.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you help people kind of determine is it more appropriate to have a therapist or a coach or both? Like how do you what’s kind of the the line that separates the two in your mind?

Diana Oehrli: Well, they say typically a coach helps is more forward thinking. Like we’re you know, we’re we’re not going back into your childhood to figure out, like why you have a block that would be more a therapist. Um, uh, area. Um, coaching is is definitely more setting goals and, and and coming up with, um, you know, breaking down the goals so that, so that they become, you know, you know, they become actionable, you know, maybe getting through some limiting beliefs that people might have that are holding you back, but it’s that I would say that’s the biggest distinction. Like, we’re not going to go into your childhood trauma. I mean, I’m definitely trauma informed, but I’m not um, I’m definitely not going to, you know, dig into your childhood to find out, like, you know, what your mother did to you, and that’s why it’s holding you back. That’s that’s definitely a therapist job.

Lee Kantor: But I. But you’re working with them in terms of. Okay, what do you you know, what’s important to you today? And then what can we do to help that dream come true?

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. And identifying your values like what do you like. What’s your what’s your work view. What’s your life view. What do you really care about. And then, you know, if during a session somebody, you know, one of as a client is, um, maybe out of alignment and not being totally authentic, and I can say, well, you know, you’ve told me that X, Y, and Z is really important to you, but right now it seems like you’re you’re not, you know, in alignment with what you’ve said you really care about? Um, you know. I think that’s why people pay for coaches is to have that challenge, that being being challenged that way. You know, and of course, in a very kind way. But if somebody told me, you know, that they care about something and then they’re going against it, you know, that’s why they hire coaches.

Lee Kantor: Right. So you’re the one that’s kind of an accountability partner is like, look, you know, for the last two months we’ve been talking about X and then now you’re doing Y. And where do X go. You know. Yeah.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. And obviously I definitely strengths based. I definitely, um, really need to um, you know I’m I’m all about focusing on people’s strengths and, um, and and trying to help them. You know, I, I’m not a CBT therapist, but I definitely believe in cognitive behavioral coaching. And there is such a thing which is, you know, identifying some thought patterns that might be. So it’s the same as sort of limiting beliefs. Like if somebody’s saying, you know, things that are a little all black or all white, you know, you can call them out there or if, um, you know, there’s certain distortions, thought distortions that can come up in a session that I can say, oh, well, that sounds like what do you think? Um, this is sounding a little black and white and, uh. Yeah. And then you you you know, I don’t say that that is a distortion, but, you know, I just ask them, what do you think? And, uh, that’s usually welcomed.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned earlier one of your clients, you were able to help them. They thought they needed to quit their job, but they, you know, after talking with you, they were able to kind of navigate a different path. Is there any other stories you can share about how you’ve helped clients get to a new level? You don’t obviously don’t name them, but maybe share the challenge that they had and how you were able to open their mind to maybe a different path.

Diana Oehrli: Oh gosh, I’m just trying to think, you know, I had one who was a vet and she had signed a non-compete and. And then her boss made life really difficult for her, and she ended up quitting, and she ended up working for somebody else. And he tried to sue her. And it was just she just needed a lot of support to get through that. Um, and in the end, she found in the end, she found a job that, um. No, I think she stuck with it. And in the end, I think I think it just worked out. But I just remember at the time, it was really, really hard because he was not a very nice boss, the ex-boss. And, um, she just needed support through that.

Lee Kantor: And, uh, and you were kind of a sounding board and, and helping her kind of kind of work through the, the mental spiral that was happening in her own head. But by talking about it with you, she was able to kind of find peace.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. And also, she figured out a way through her lawyer to make it less expensive. Um, I think in the end, I think he ended up working for her pro bono. I think in the end. But it was, you know, it required, you know, some brainstorming, like, like analyzing different possibilities, different ways forward. And, um, and sometimes, you know, she didn’t want to take that home to her husband. And where else is she going to go to talk about that?

Lee Kantor: Right. Where else? I mean, that’s the the problem. They I think that they just hold it all in and they just can’t sleep at night because their mind is just trying to solve these problems that they need kind of fresh eyes on.

Diana Oehrli: Mhm. Yeah I’m trying to think of another, another. Um I don’t want to divulge too much right now.

Lee Kantor: No I understand but that’s a that gives the listener a couple good ideas on the types of clients that you’re able to help and, and kind of the way that you go about doing it is there if somebody wants to connect with you and learn more about your writing, your coaching, your podcast. Is there a website? What’s the best way to kind of plug into, your world.

Diana Oehrli: I have a website called Diana. Dot com. Um, if they can’t spell that, which I understand, it’s a Swiss last name. Um, uh, they can go to the pressures of privilege on Substack and all the links are there. And, uh, yeah, those I would say are the easiest ways to find me.

Lee Kantor: And that’s d a n a o e h i.com is the website.

Diana Oehrli: Yeah. That’s correct.

Lee Kantor: Well, Diana, thank you so much for sharing your story today, doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Diana Oehrli: Oh, thank you so much, Lea. I love talking about this stuff.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

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