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Discover the Seven Growth Secrets That Propel Companies to Success

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Discover the Seven Growth Secrets That Propel Companies to Success
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Nicolas Darveau-Garneau, author of Sequoia Not a Bonsai and CEO of Garneau Digital Advisors. Garneau shares proven growth strategies from his experience at Google and consulting with top companies, focusing on ethical profit maximization, customer lifetime value, and data-driven digital marketing. He highlights the power of continuous experimentation, AI integration, and aligning teams around meaningful KPIs. Practical examples show how these principles benefit organizations of all sizes. Garnaut encourages listeners to start small, test ideas, and leverage AI for sustainable business growth.

Nicolas Darveau-Garneau (“Nick”) is a leading expert in growth, artificial intelligence, and digital transformation with over 25 years of experience at the intersection of technology, strategy, and innovation.

He previously served as Chief Evangelist at Google, where he partnered with the C-suites of more than 1,000 of Google’s top global customers to accelerate their digital transformation initiatives. He also held the role of Chief Strategy and Growth Officer at Coveo, a leading AI company.

A seasoned entrepreneur, investor, and analyst, he has been at the forefront of the digital economy since 1995. He was part of the founding team of MSN.com at Microsoft and went on to co-found four Internet companies, successfully selling three. As an active investor, he has backed more than 20 technology startups

Earlier in his career, he worked as a management consultant at McKinsey & Company and a senior equity analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, one of Wall Street’s top-ranked firms.

He currently serves on the Boards of Directors for TMX Group (TSX: X), McEwen Mining (NYSE: MUX), and Alida, and advises numerous companies on growth and AI strategy. He also teaches two executive education courses— “AI in Marketing” on the ELVTR platform and “AI in the Boardroom” for the Institute of Corporate Directors (ICD).

Nick is the author of the forthcoming book, Be a Sequoia, Not a Bonsai: The Seven Growth Secrets of the World’s Most Successful Companies (HarperCollins Leadership, January 27, 2026). Drawing on insights from advising over 1,000 CEOs at Google, he reveals how the top 5% of companies think and act differently while avoiding the costly mistakes that hold the other 95% back. Featuring over 300 practical case studies, the book offers clear, actionable strategies to drive growth and delight customers.

He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics from the University of Waterloo and an MBA from Harvard Business School.

Connect with Nick on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Business growth strategies and their importance for companies.
  • Digital marketing techniques and the role of paid advertising.
  • Profitability optimization and ethical profit maximization.
  • Customer lifetime value (CLV) and its impact on long-term profitability.
  • The significance of data-driven decision-making and metrics alignment.
  • The role of testing and experimentation in business growth.
  • The integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in marketing and operations.
  • Change management and employee engagement in AI adoption.
  • Case studies illustrating successful application of growth strategies.
  • The accessibility of growth strategies for small businesses and nonprofits.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is gonna be a good one. Today on the show we have the author of the book Sequoia Not a Sequoia, Not a Bonsai The Seven Growth Secrets of the World’s Most Successful Companies, and the CEO with Garneau Digital Advisors, we have Nicholas Darveau-Garneau. Welcome.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Haley. Thank you for having me. I’m really thrilled to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Let’s start with your agency. Uh, how are you serving folks?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: You know, I, uh, I was at Google for a number of years, and I was at Google’s chief evangelist for the last five years of my career. And, uh, I got to meet a thousand CEOs and really understand what the best companies in the world were doing. So every year I advise only about five companies. That’s as much as I want to do, and I helped them dramatically improve their transformation to more digital. So digital marketing, better digital customer experience and an AI strategy. So I’m really picky in who I work with. And typically they can achieve some pretty extraordinary results.

Lee Kantor: And then from that work that that brought you to your book, is that how that happened after you? I’m sure you kind of gleaned some learnings from dealing with all those top companies, and then you put them in a book.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: That’s exactly right. So the book, you know, basically not a bonsai is about, you know, what I learned from these 1000 CEOs and about, you know, 5 to 10% of these companies and these CEOs acted and thought very, very differently than the others. And so the book is the seven things that I noticed after. I mean, when you get a, you know, a thousand CEO meetings, right, you get some pattern recognition. So one of the things these companies do that is very different. So the book explains that. And then when I do some consulting with a company, I take them through step by step the seven different things and how to make them actionable.

Lee Kantor: So can you kind of share a little bit about those seven growth secrets?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah, one of them is is most companies. And this is really surprising. Most companies actually don’t try to maximize profits, right. I mean, they say they do right in doing this in a way that’s ethical obviously. Right. Good for the environment, good for the customer. But you know, every CEO that I’ve ever met is like, hey, we’re trying to maximize profits. But if you start asking people below them like, what are you working on? If you ask the chief marketing officer, they’re like, well, we’re trying to get more leads at a lower, lower cost per lead. And it’s nothing to do with profitability by these leads can all be terrible. Or if you talk to the head of product, hey, we’re trying to get more features out there. Well, are these features going to drive customer success? Are they and their customers willing to pay for it. Are they going to maximize profits? If you talk to customer service and so on and so on. So it turns out that the CEO wants to really improve profitability, but very few people inside the company are actually working on that.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: So one of the first things that we do is we go through everybody’s KPI right and start rethinking about that. And so an example of that is I was really fortunate to work with Saint Jude’s Children’s Hospital, which is the largest children’s hospital in the world, and they do extraordinary work with with kids. And they were investing, you know, digital marketing with Google, and they were raising some money very successfully. Um, but their KPI wasn’t kind of right, in my opinion. I thought what they should do is maximize the donations they get from Google, minus the marketing investment that they make. Right? Which is pretty logical. So they switched the KPI to that. Uh, and next thing you know, within a few months, uh, by doing this and some other things, they had raised 46% more money and they were already raising $1 billion. So just kind of changing your KPIs can have a massive, massive impact. So that’s the first, you know, and kind of least obvious thing because you would think every company is trying to maximize profits, but they are not.

Lee Kantor: Now, I don’t know if it’s the least obvious, because I think that sometimes people get distracted. We call them in our company cosmetics. These are some metrics that might be easy to kind of capture, but they may not be the important metrics. Um, and I think people kind of get distracted by that just because you can count how many people, um, you know, come to the website or how many people see an ad or something, doesn’t mean that that’s the thing that’s going to drive the profit like the.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Right now you’re completely right. People. You know, people select metrics that, um, they can track easily that are, you know, non questionable. Right. If you track profits, You know, people can debate exactly what the numbers should be because there’s a bunch of assumptions made in there. So you’re right. People just choose the easiest thing. But it’s like, you know, having a rowing team and you know, the eight rowers are rowing in eight different directions.

Lee Kantor: Right? But you’re calculating, you know, how fast the speed is for each of them, you know, to hit the water. So you think you’re capturing something that is going to translate to value. But if they’re not coordinated, then it’s going to not translate to anything.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Right. And then let me kind of so the next big thing is a little more advanced, which is, um, you know, optimizing profits is great. But um, over what time frame. Right. So kind of optimizing longer term profits or customer lifetime value is something that, you know, very, very few companies do. So an example of that is if you’re trying to acquire customers, whether you’re a small company, you know, you’re you’re a gym or you’re a larger company or a nonprofit, you’re trying to, you know, you’re trying to acquire some new donors. Um, very seldom is any company looking at the quality of that customer or that donor over time. Right. And then if you actually kind of understand the industry. Right. In most industries, 10 to 20% of the customers drive 80% of the profitability over time. And so, um, the top, top companies in the world, when they acquire brand new customer, they can predict how much a customer is going to be worth in terms of profitability in the next 5 to 10 years, right. Their customer lifetime value. And they can share that number back with Google and Facebook and other digital marketing platforms. And next thing you know, they’re just acquiring a lot more valuable customers. For an example is, um, I was working with a car insurance company. And if your car insurance company. Right, your biggest issue when you acquire customers is that some of them crash their car and some of them leave you after after a year.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: So, you know, can you use AI to build a model to predict that? And the answer is yes. And so we work with this company. They built the model to predict, you know, the profitability of each individual customer. Send that back to Google and Facebook. And next thing you know, they had 60% fewer of the high risk customers who are much more likely to crash their car or churn within a year. And they had 90% more of their very high quality customers were not going to crash their car and are going to stick around for many, many years. And that quadruple the company’s profitability, right? So that’s pretty advanced, you know, strategy. But it’s not that hard to execute if you know exactly what you’re doing in the book goes into like step by step, like how would you forecast the value of a customer you’ve never seen before? They’re brand new today. And then how do you build dashboards around that? How do you share that data with digital marketing platforms? And companies who do this like significantly outperform because all their competitors are acquiring average customers and they’re just getting the cream off the top and picking off the top 20% customers. And so it’s just really an unfair battle.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you think that in today’s world, doing paid ads? I know you have a I would imagine some sort of a Google bias, but is paid ads kind of a must have part of any digital marketing or marketing strategy in today’s world? Like, do you have to do that? Is that part of how a company grows?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah. You don’t like I mean, the last chapter of the book is around, um, testing and experimentation, right? We should have as a company is a whole bunch of hypotheses. You can test really fast. So to your question, right, is Facebook or Google, you know, profitable for me. And that’s the metric you should look at. So what is the easiest way to test that. You figure that out right. And then you run a test that takes us 2 to 3 weeks and then you know right. So like one of the biggest differences by the way, between companies who just crush it. And companies will struggle as their open mindedness of trying new things, like some CEOs are just really like, uh, give you an example, I was talking to a whole bunch of of movie executives at different movie studios. And, um, Google has this pretty amazing advertising tool that you invest money in it, and then Google can track, you know, the customer saw an ad, right? They saw the trailer of your movie, and then they can track with pretty high degree of precision whether or not that customer has been to a movie theater or your movie showing. And so you can tell, like, for example, you put in $1 million of advertising and you got, you know, a million people to go to a movie theater for a dollar each for each visit.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Right. And that makes sense. It makes financial sense. It’s really profitable. And so some of the movie executives I talked to were like, yeah, this is a no brainer. This is amazing. Like, where has this been all my life? Let’s try it tomorrow. And some you would expect them to try it, but they would be like, well you know how do you track this? Like how precise is your estimate of of where people go. And then if somebody goes into a movie, movie theater, like, we don’t know if they want to see our movie, they could have seen somebody else’s movie. Well, well, they just saw your trailer two days ago, so clearly the odds are very high they’re going to see a movie. So some executives just didn’t want to try it. Right. So to answer your question, like, I don’t know, for most companies paid ads is going to are going to work, but you should have a list of the biggest opportunities for your company and find the minimum viable test you can run. The easiest thing that you can do to see if that thing makes sense or not. Right? And so don’t overintellectualize it. Don’t overanalyze it. Can I figure it out, you know, for a thousand bucks or 5000 bucks in the next two weeks? And then if it works, you scale it. And if it doesn’t work, you don’t.

Lee Kantor: Now your work. It sounds like you’re doing a lot of work with large enterprise level organizations. Um, a lot of the people who listen to this are aspiring large enterprises. What does the advice kind of trickle down like? Can you. You’re throwing out numbers thousand, $5,000 million. It doesn’t work for hundreds of dollars. Is there kind of a minimum size you have to, um, be in order to access data that is meaningful?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: You don’t like the. Actually, the last story in the book is, uh, about a gym owner, right? Uh, Mint Condition Fitness out of California. And he’s built a gym that, um, uh, where the customers are 20 times more profitable than the average gym by doing a whole bunch of really clever stuff. Right? That’s that’s he’s basically doing almost everything that’s in the book, and he’s just really, really sharp. And so, yeah, and a gym owner, a restaurant owner, you know, a small business owner, you name it. Right? If you think about the seven principles from the beginning and you test them. And again, it could be for hundreds of dollars to your point. Um, you could absolutely, completely transform your business. So this this gym owner, I think the guy was a private trainer, right? He was making 30,000 bucks a year in Silicon Valley, which is, you know, pretty expensive place to live. So he wasn’t doing that. Great. Now his gym is generating $1.2 million, and he’s opening up a whole bunch more. And so, yeah, absolutely. Any nonprofit. And by the way, like in my consulting firm, um, I do five nonprofit consulting engagements a year for free, right? I mean, I’m working with Saint Jude’s was one of the greatest things I ever did, and it was really rewarding. So, um, if people want to reach out to me on LinkedIn, if you have a nonprofit, delighted to to help. Um, if you’re a small business, you know, I, I don’t do consulting for small businesses, but if you read the book, um, and then you just reach out to me on LinkedIn and ask me questions, I’d be delighted to answer those. Um, but the book is really step by step by step, exactly what you should do.

Lee Kantor: Now, does the book. Okay, let’s make the assumption. I’m a small business person. I can’t afford you. Um, but I’m going to buy the book. Uh, is the book going to be now? That’s my new job. Or can I still be the gym owner? Run a gym train? People do gym stuff. Um, and do this, you know, a few hours a week, or is this something that. Now I got to put a body on this?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: No, it’s, uh, it’s not that onerous. And the idea is just to test one new idea. You know, whenever you can. Right. So if it’s once a month or once every three months. So, for example, if you’re not doing any paid marketing right, you can absolutely start a Facebook account on your own. And if you do it right from the beginning, if you optimizing profitability, right. If you’re trying to acquire now, people are going to come to the gym, but they’re not going to leave, you know, in April after they join in January. And you can there’s lots of different ways to do this that are really simple. So now it’s not that hard. Um, the trick is to test ideas that are easy to test, but if they work, have massive impact, right? And so now if you, you know, if you hit pay dirt, if one of your ideas really works right, then you can start investing more time and energy. So maybe you’re finding out that paid ads is just crushing it for you. So now you can hire an agency and pay them, you know, 15% of of what you want to invest or even eventually hire full time. But you don’t have to invest, right? You just test things on your own. You see if they work, and only then do you have to make the time investment or the money investment. And so the book is all about things you can try that are, you know, relatively simple, relatively inexpensive, but have big upside if they work.

Lee Kantor: And that’s really the secret. You have to be able to iterate fast and then double down on the winners and then forget about the losers.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah, I actually think so that the last chapter of the book is about moving faster and increasing your velocity. You know, if you believe, like I do, that AI is going to flatten the world a lot, meaning it’s going to it’s going to make a lot of things easier for smaller companies. Um, and so the competitive advantage of larger companies, I think will get diminished to some extent. So, you know, how differentiated are going to, you know, is our website going to be how differentiated are ads going to be? How differentiated is our service going to be when you can have AI do a lot of that very inexpensively? So I think in the end, right, you know, over, over time, the most important competitive differentiation is how quickly can you try something new and how quickly can you scale it. Right. So one of the things that as you get going with these ideas in the book, you try one, you know, a month for a while and then you get some success. And not every idea is going to work, but you get some success. And next thing you know, you’re making more money. You reinvest, you try another idea, you know, next month, and then next thing you know, you’re trying two ideas a month and then three and then five and then 100.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: So, uh, I work with an internet company Funny that 25 x the number of tests they were doing over the course of a year by just, you know, trying new things, finding better tools to test, finding the simplest tests you can do. And then whenever they were doing a test, they would figure out what was hard about this test. Like what? Why did this test take so long? Well, we had to go through a lawyer to get this approved. And we have to do this all the time. So why don’t we put, you know, a part time lawyer on this team to get approvals happening faster? And so, like, the kind of figuring out how you can improve your improvement system, I call it I call this getting better at getting better, right? I mean, it’s like working out, right. If you’re working out and you’re, you know, you’re improving by 1% a year, that’s great. But if you can make that 5% a year, you’re just going to be a lot better off. So the the rate of improvement of a company becomes extraordinarily important in a very competitive, AI driven environment.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned AI a few times. Can you talk about how this strategy, Um, kind of works with the AI framework. Are you saying to do the same thing while using and learning about AI? Should you be going there and iterating and learning fast in that ecosystem?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the ideas in the book, you know, um, are driven by AI, and AI is just a tool, right? It’s not just a few advertising on Facebook or Google. I mean, it’s 95% AI driven. So Google and Facebook are doing a lot of the grunt work for you. So what is it that you as a human should do differently than others? Right. But but you know, in addition to that, yes, I think AI can um, I mean, every small medium business should look at AI for internal productivity. There’s a lot of, um, there’s a lot of news right now about AI, you know, not working, not increasing productivity. Um, that’s not my experience, right? There’s actually a study by Harvard Business Review, uh, Harvard Business School with BCG that had consultants that use a lot of AI and consultants who didn’t lose, you know, use a lot of AI. And the ones who use a lot of AI did 12% more work and 25% less time, and it was 40% better work. But when the consultants using AI were doing stuff that hadn’t been trained on well with AI, they were 19% less productive. So what’s happening a lot is people are like, you know, they put ChatGPT or Gemini or Copilot inside their business, right? They pay 20 bucks a month, whatever it is. And then they’re like, okay, AI is in. Well, you can’t do that if, you know, if you have somebody in HR, right? That’s writing job descriptions. They have to be taught how to use AI to write job descriptions.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: So you have to go to that level of specificity internally. The other thing internally is that, you know, obviously employees are nervous about AI. So how you introduce it, what you say really matters a lot. If you say like, hey, I’m bringing AI to increase productivity, that’s like code word for you’re going to lose your job, right? So you have to be thoughtful about it and say, look, now I want to double the business in the next five years and just, you know, hire 40% more people. That’s my goal with AI. So if I hear that as an employee, I’m like, oh, okay. So that’s, you know, point one, right? Point two is like, hey, look, you know, I really want you to learn AI and I’m going to help you learn AI. So I expect you to learn AI, and that’s going to be part of your performance reviews going forward. And three like look you know AI is going to start you know grabbing some things from your job. It’s just going to happen right. So AI will start doing the low value stuff, but eventually the middle value stuff and then even some of the higher value stuff that you do. Let’s be honest. Right. But look, here’s what your job is going to look like a year from now, two years from now. So I’ve thought through how you’re going to grow and you’re going to stay ahead of AI. So if you combine these three things right, you can get massive productivity improvements. And then and then you can start putting AI in front of your customers.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Right. For customer service for advice, for lots of things you can do. You have to really be careful. There’s lots of things that can go wrong here, right? The AI can just say crazy, stupid things, so you have to really test it. You have to have the right technology. It’s a little bit complexity. You have to find the right partner. But you can do some pretty amazing things for customers using AI as well. And so yeah, AI is a must, right? For almost every, um, every company actually just go to ChatGPT, right? Explain your company to ChatGPT and ask it what AI will be able to do five years from now for your company and ask it, you know, whether you should invest right now or wait. And honestly, it’s going to be a really good discussion you can have with ChatGPT. And sometimes it tells you like, hey, for your company, it’s no big deal, don’t worry about it. Maybe wait a year or two, but sometimes it tells you like, hey, your hair should be on fire. You should be all over it now, uh, because other competitors are way ahead. And so inform yourself on where you are. Compare yourself to others. Ask ChatGPT what do you think I should do? Um, but, um, you know, AI is just a tool. It can’t do anything for you on its own. The biggest issue is just change management inside your company and changing how employees think and what they do. So it’s really a human problem, not a technology problem.

Lee Kantor: And in order to leverage it to its fullest effect, um, I think it goes back to your original point. You have to aim it at things like maximize profitable growth. Not right. This LinkedIn copy for me, like those are different asks. And it could do both if you ask. And you have to give it the data so that it can inform, you know, the key metrics, not the cause metrics.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah. I mean, if you if you start doing paid advertising, if you haven’t done it before and you ask AI for more leads at the lowest cost per lead, which is what 90% of B2B you know, advertisers do, you’re going to get a lot more leads at a lower cost per lead and AI will be amazing at delivering that. There’s no evidence whatsoever these leaves will be useful to you. Right. And so the AI, like the more AI we use and the worse the KPI is, the faster we drive off the road, right? It’s like having a self-driving car with the wrong map. And so yeah, in order to for AI to really improve your business, you as a human have to really be very thoughtful about what you’re asking it to do. And you also have to be thoughtful with about what data you share back to the AI so it understands like an AI without a closed loop, like an AI just doing stuff, not knowing if it’s good or not good. Um, it’s not as helpful as an AI that is being told, like, hey, thank you for sending me this lead, but this is complete garbage or comparing or this lead as gold for me. Uh, if you’re just going to rank the leads from 1 to 5, right. And just share that with the AI, next thing you know, you get a lot more leads that are fives and a lot fewer that are ones. And so asking the right question to the to the eye is critical, and then feeding it the right data is also critical.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Well, look, you know, I like every anybody listening to to buy the book and be a part of bonsai. I donate all my profits to Saint Jude’s Children’s Hospital. So, you know, we’re also going to cure cancer together. I want people to start trying things from the book, and I want them to reach out to me on LinkedIn to tell me I was going to ask me some questions. I’ll answer every single question. Um, and look, you know, like, it’s not that many folks have had the privilege of meeting a thousand CEOs. I just was lucky to be in that position. Um, these ideas are not my own, right? These ideas are just from the best, best companies in the world. I’m just summarizing them. Um, and I’ve seen them work over and over and over again, and very few companies do them. So if you, you know, are open minded, if you want to do a little bit of work and test some of these ideas. I’m guarantee you your company will be unrecognizable two years from now. And so, um, really encourage people to to buy the book and then reach out to me.

Lee Kantor: Well, Nick, if somebody wants to learn more, is there a website or is LinkedIn or obviously, I’m sure on Amazon, or they can get the book anywhere, but, um, what what is kind of the best way to connect? You mentioned LinkedIn. Is there a website as well?

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Yeah, you can go to Nicholas Comm, uh, and contact me there. But LinkedIn, I’ll accept, you know, any LinkedIn friend requests and I’ll answer any email.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, Nick, thank you so much for sharing your story today, doing such important work. And we appreciate you.

Nicholas Darveau-Garneau: Hey, thanks. Cheers.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Transforming Nonprofit Finances: Innovative Solutions for Sustainable Growth

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Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Transforming Nonprofit Finances: Innovative Solutions for Sustainable Growth
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Karen Houghton, CEO and co-founder of Infinite Giving. Karen discusses how Infinite Giving empowers small to midsize nonprofits by providing tailored financial technology and investment advisory services, including streamlined brokerage accounts and support for accepting stock gifts. She highlights the challenges nonprofits face in accessing sophisticated financial tools and shares how Infinite Giving bridges these gaps, helping organizations achieve financial sustainability and amplify their impact. Karen also introduces her book, “Funding Your Mission,” and encourages nonprofits to leverage these resources for greater growth and stewardship.

Karen Houghton is the CEO and co-founder of Infinite Giving, a Registered Investment Advisor that helps nonprofits build financial sustainability.

With a background in both nonprofit leadership and venture capital, Karen brings a rare blend of heart and strategy to financial stewardship. She is passionate about democratizing access to wealth-building tools and guiding mission-driven organizations toward long-term financial health.

As a trusted advisor and advocate, she is reshaping how nonprofits think about money as a powerful resource for growing impact. Her work empowers tax-exempt entities to grow their assets, weather uncertainty, and fund their futures.

Connect with Karen on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Challenges faced by small to midsize nonprofits in managing and investing funds.
  • Importance of financial sustainability for nonprofit organizations.
  • The gap in financial services tailored to nonprofits, particularly smaller ones.
  • The role of Infinite Giving in facilitating stock gifts and providing brokerage account services.
  • Discussion on the limitations of traditional financial institutions for nonprofits.
  • Strategies for nonprofits to manage cash and investments more effectively.
  • Introduction of the book “Funding Your Mission: The Modern Guide to Nonprofit Finance.”
  • The impact of streamlining the process for accepting stock gifts on nonprofit funding.
  • The importance of fiduciary oversight and support for nonprofit financial management.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, CSU’s executive MBA program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories. Today on the show, we have the CEO and co-founder of Infinite Giving, Karen Houghton, welcome.

Karen Houghton: Thank you. Good to be here, Lee.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. I’ve been following your career for quite some time. For folks who aren’t familiar, can you share a little bit about infinite giving? How you serving folks?

Karen Houghton: Yeah, infinite Giving is a financial technology and investment advisory firm that exclusively serves nonprofits. So we are a fiduciary partner for tax exempt entities. And we are one place that can help them raise money, invest money and steward their money.

Lee Kantor: So what was kind of the genesis of the idea? How did you get involved in this line of work?

Karen Houghton: Well, I had a ten year career in the startup tech ecosystem in Atlanta as well as venture capital. I was a venture partner with Atlanta Ventures, but before that, I was actually the founder and executive director of a nonprofit. And so I’ve had the unique experience of filing for the 500 1C3 and being the fundraiser and working with boards. And then also as I grew into finance and deal size. I started serving on a lot of boards. So I’ve served on small nonprofit boards where we’re in a scarcity mindset, trying to build up our first reserve fund all the way to serving on the board of trustees at Barry College, right where we have a small $2 billion endowment. And so there’s a lot of different nonprofits out there. And our goal really is to serve the small to mid-size organizations who maybe are just with a bank or not sure what their investment strategies are or don’t even have a way to receive stock gifts. And that’s who we want to help, because we have a really passionate and firm belief that the more nonprofits that are financially sustainable, then the better our communities and and society will be. They’re often the ones doing some of the most important work at hand.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you have a niche within nonprofits? Do you focus on a certain type of nonprofit?

Karen Houghton: Yeah, We currently serve. As of today, we currently serve about 400 different nonprofit organizations all over the US, and they are in different industries. So we do a lot of national parks, schools, libraries, churches, ministries. So a bunch of different organizations. Probably what we’re defining is small to midsize is under 25 million in securities and savings.

Lee Kantor: So what is kind of the pain that they’re having where they’re like, I should contact Karen and her folks.

Karen Houghton: Well, what a lot of people don’t realize is that banks existed for more than a hundred years before the first tax exempt entity even existed. So if you’re listening to this and you are a business or retail client in the finance world here in the US, you’re like, what do you mean there’s no problems? All of this is so easy. If you are a tax exempt entity and you’ve done something like tried to open a brokerage account, or you have tried to get really good fiduciary advice from somebody who understands nonprofits, you realize it’s actually a lot harder than you think. 90% of nonprofit organizations in the US don’t even have a brokerage account. And because of that, they’re limited in how they can steward the funds they have. They can’t have endowments. They aren’t able to receive stock gifts. So it’s really quite limiting. And those major donors love to give those tax efficient gifts and those larger gifts. So what we’ve seen happen is that the big organizations stay really big. The small organizations stay really small because of the financial limitations that they face. So infinite giving is bridging that gap and trying to make it all easier and more accessible in a place made for them.

Lee Kantor: So the smaller ones are out there. They’re just getting like cash donations. That’s how they kind of mainly survive.

Karen Houghton: Yeah, and they have money sitting in a checking account sitting in a low yield savings account. If they’re wild and crazy, sometimes they are investing in a CD, right? Uh, but that is not the way that most savvy business folks or businesses actually grow, right? Most of us are in the market in some way, shape or form. Even if you have a retirement account, a 401 K, you are in the market. And the reason large non-profits and retail and business clients do that is because it works. Um, and so what’s interesting is that you take the nonprofit sector where financial stewardship is perhaps the most important. And we’re saying, actually, you only should have access to a checking and a savings account. Yes. Just leave. Leave donor money in a bank losing value to inflation because that’s responsible. So sometimes what feels safe to nonprofit leaders and donors is actually not good stewardship. We actually there’s a lot of really conservative ways where we can steward what we have as we seek. Financial sustainability as as organizations.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, for a lot of your clients, are you the first conversation they’re having about this or have they tried this before and it didn’t work out? Or are you the kind of the first person that said, okay, you’re unlocking a whole new potential area for financial stability and growth?

Karen Houghton: Huh? It does vary. Uh, we serve organizations where we’re their first brokerage account, and they’re asking questions like, can a nonprofit even invest? What are we allowed to do? Uh, there’s other, much more savvy organizations we serve, I think 46, in the Atlanta area. And they are oh, we have an investment account with our bank or someone’s brother’s uncle, uh, is investing our funds for us. And then often we’re like, great. What’s their nonprofit expertise? Where’s your investment policy statement? What fees are you paying? Uh, your funds are in a community foundation. What does that fee structure. And often just doing an audit of where are our funds? What are those returns? Why are they there? What are the fees? Um, how are we stewarding them with intention is a really helpful process that those volunteers or those, um, advisors who are helping, uh, those nonprofits may not have that expertise that’s needed.

Lee Kantor: Now, is your service like an advisory service where you’re kind of coaching them on how to do it? But are you also the place where they can, um, invest their funds?

Karen Houghton: Yes, we do both. So we are a registered investment advisor. So we do financial planning with them where we work through short term, mid term, long term strategies, whether it’s hey, do you want an FDIC sweet program so you don’t have to have six different banking partners to, you know, not go over your 250 K FDIC coverage to a brokerage money market, which is better than bank money markets typically. Right. And then we get into investment strategies where we do a lot of endowment creation, long term, uh, financial management disbursements, things like that. So yes, we’re investment advisors, but it often starts with cash. And how do we steward that cash? I actually have a book, uh, that we published called Funding Your Mission, and it’s a modern guide to nonprofit finance. You can find it on Barnes and Noble on Amazon. We’ve been a bestseller in nonprofit. Uh, but it talks through a lot of that of of hey, how do we think about moving from a scarcity mindset to a strategy mindset that ideally leads to sustainability? Or, hey, you have a checking account and you have an investment account, but isn’t there a whole bunch of funds that kind of sit in the middle right where you could have this midterm, like, hey, maybe you’re in fixed income, maybe you’re in mutual funds where you can grow cash in a conservative way. Um, and then even having, you know, the strategy and framework to use with boards and donors on, on how to move in that direction is quite helpful and often lacking in banking partners.

Lee Kantor: Now, can you share the story? Maybe early on when you had this idea and you were going to approach some non-profits? Can you share maybe that moment where somebody you know was your first client, or the first person you talked to and advised that helped them get kind of a return or an outcome that you were like, okay, this is something that that I can I’m getting traction. I have something here that’s going to help a lot of people.

Karen Houghton: Uh, sure. Like in our early, early days, uh, you know, we did a lot of customer discovery. We did over a hundred, uh, nonprofit leader interviews. Definitely made sure that we were building something with a large market. Um, the small to mid-size nonprofits, which is under 25 million, is securities, and savings is actually a $500 billion market here in the US that is incredibly underserved. Um, so we knew the market. We knew we had a lot of the data points. Um, and then once we launched, uh, I don’t think Aaron would mind me sharing this. So Aaron Hurst was the executive director of Endeavor Atlanta. And I sat down with him and he was like, yes, I understand the problem you’re solving, I experience it. I know we should be doing more with the funds we have. I know I should be receiving stock gifts. We don’t have access to any of that. There’s not an easy way to do it. Sign me up. And we had a few of those, um, just right out of the gate where it was a. Hey, we’ve got money that we want to. We want to work in steward. Uh, better. And we also want to open up those giving paths, um, to, to more of our donors. It may seem silly, but opening a brokerage account for a nonprofit, you and I individually can go online and do it in five minutes.

Karen Houghton: When you’re a nonprofit, it’s generally a 50 plus page application that requires wet ink, snail mail, and can take up to 12 weeks just to open a brokerage account. That’s why 90% of them plus don’t. And then there’s high minimums. A lot of organizations require, you know, a $2 million minimum, a half $1 million minimum. And that’s where it becomes really limiting. But we are one of the only firms that has the ability to streamline the entire painful process for a tax exempt entity. In fact, we have the only online brokerage account opening that exists for nonprofits in the country. So we take this very painful snail mail waiting 12 week process. And it’s a 30 minute appointment online and we have them up and going in three business days. Uh, and so we are trying to streamline all of that because again, we’re not serving business retail. And oh yeah, some non-profits, we were actually created to exclusively serve non-profits, which means we’re able to streamline a lot of the complex compliance requirements that non-profits have. We were made to serve them. So we solve a lot of pain points that they that exist for them in the traditional financial system.

Lee Kantor: And it sounds like the pain points are at the beginning, so that it would kind of preclude them from even starting, because it’s just too cumbersome to even attempt to begin because like, you know, whenever you have one of those situations where it’s it’s that difficult to apply. People just say, you know, they try it maybe, and then they get pushback and they’re like, why are we doing this is a distraction. There’s, you know, we should be doing other things where they’re missing out on a huge opportunity.

Karen Houghton: Right? It takes away from the mission. When something administrative becomes such a heavy lift, it becomes a burden rather than an opportunity. And it shouldn’t be that way. And even organizations who are like, okay, yes, we went through all that process ten years ago. We have a Vanguard account. Um, you know, it’s still like, great. Well, who’s rebalancing your accounts? Um, who’s suggesting no strategies? Who’s pulling your investment policy statement? Um, who’s looking at what other nonprofits are doing and helping with audit support? Oh, you receive stock gifts. Did you do the manual? You know, verbal confirmation? Did you sell it? Did you transfer the funds? Did your finance team create the receipt? It’s a very manual process, um, that we streamline all of that from receiving the gift to managing an endowment, handing the annual disbursement. So it’s more than just a strategy. There’s a whole process. Um, that’s very compliance heavy for tax exempt organizations, uh, that we really help streamline and lighten that lift, whether it’s their first time or they already have an investment strategy and they have a structure in place, but it’s still very manual. They don’t have that consistent fiduciary oversight. It’s somebody on the board who’s a volunteer. What do you do when that person rolls off the board? What do you do when you have three investment advisors on the board? You have conflict of interest. So really, the best practices for nonprofit organizations are to outsource, have an affordable, consistent fiduciary oversight that works very closely with the boards on that now.

Lee Kantor: Um, is there a story you can share regarding the once they unlocked, um, you know, people being able to donate and, uh, gift stocks that maybe they were skeptical or they were like, okay, let’s try it, but we don’t know. And then all of a sudden they got, you know, more than they had even imagined.

Karen Houghton: Absolutely. Well, the average online cash gifts like credit, debit online is $128. The average stock gift on a national level is $8,000. So these tend to be much larger gifts. Through the Infinite Giving platform, it averages closer to $14,000. And the reason these gifts are bigger, they’re less common, right? It’s anyone listening who is a donor. Right. It’s highly tax efficient to give stock gifts. Most of us hold the majority of our wealth in securities. And so you’re able to avoid paying capital gains taxes. And you get to deduct the full value of that gift. So it’s incredibly tax efficient to do so. Which is why those often tend to be larger gifts. So whether we’re streamlined, they already are doing it. And we’re streamlining a very archaic manual process. Uh, Or we’re allowing them to do it for the first time. Uh, it is a joy for us because we are seeing donors be generous. We are seeing non-profits be good stewards and do great work, and we get to be that processor and the bridge that connects those two.

Lee Kantor: So you’re seeing so sometimes you’re kind of unlocking something new and it’s dramatic, the amount of impact that’s coming to their bottom line and how many people they can serve and help and all that stuff.

Karen Houghton: Absolutely. It’s more tax efficient for the donors. It’s larger gifts for the non-profits. And then even if they’re already in that process, we are massively streamlining that experience, both for the nonprofit finance teams and the donor. So we’re increasing transparency and the administrative burden on a very traditional process.

Lee Kantor: And you mentioned that this, uh, this can you serve a variety of nonprofits so they could be a church, they could be an association. They could be any type of nonprofit.

Karen Houghton: Absolutely, yes. So any tax exempt status we can serve you.

Lee Kantor: And and that means even, um, you know, a family, um, what is it called, the family foundation or things like that? Trust foundation.

Karen Houghton: We can serve we we serve some foundations. Uh, here in Atlanta, we serve Venture Atlanta, we serve fintech Atlanta. So those would be associations. Uh, we serve a lot of charities, um, land trusts. Uh, so, yeah, a wide variety if there are multiple types of tax exempt statuses. But if you’re tax exempt, we’re able to serve you.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, connect with you or somebody on the team or get a hold of that book, Funding Your Mission The Modern Guide to Nonprofit Finance. What is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Karen Houghton: Yeah, funding your mission you can find on Amazon. That’s just a great resource to give to board members or your finance teams that is like, hey, here’s a framework that makes sense. We try to do a lot of storytelling. So for a finance book, uh, it’s pretty engaging. We got a lot of free resources in there. If you’d like to learn more, uh, we’d love to see how we can best support you. You can find us at Infinite Giving. Uh, and you can schedule a free consultation with us. Uh, you can do a 15 or 30 minute call, uh, and we can talk you through things. Uh, and, of course, you can email me directly if you’d like. Karen at infinite.

Lee Kantor: Com so what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Karen Houghton: We want to help more nonprofits. Uh, and so really, it’s sharing and spreading the word, uh, and making sure that more nonprofit organizations have efficient tools made for them who can essentially help them, you know, steward what they have with wisdom and ease.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, congratulations on all the success. Um, and, uh, thank you for everything you’re doing. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Karen Houghton: Thank you. Lee, I appreciate it. It’s an honor. The when we look back and we see hundreds of nonprofit organizations who are becoming more financially sustainable. It is the greatest honor because these people are some of the most passionate folks doing some of the most important work, and we just get to be a small part of their journey. Uh, as they do that work.

Lee Kantor: Right. But the impact is real. I mean, the impact you’re having in the ripple effects that it’s causing. It’s just extremely, I’m sure, rewarding work.

Karen Houghton: Absolutely. I mean, to date, we’ve helped create more than $30 million in additional funding for nonprofits we serve.

Lee Kantor: Wow. Amazing story. Congratulations again.

Karen Houghton: Thank you. Lee. Appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Building Trust in the Age of AI: Strategies for Organizations and Employees

by

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Building Trust in the Age of AI: Strategies for Organizations and Employees
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On this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Patrice Lindo, CEO of Career Nomad, about navigating the rapidly changing labor market shaped by AI. Patrice discusses how Career Nomad helps organizations and individuals adapt to workforce disruptions, reframe work around outcomes, and communicate value. She shares insights from supporting students and workers through job transitions, emphasizing transparent communication, strategic impact, and personalized support. The conversation highlights the importance of trust, adaptability, and empowering people to thrive in an AI-driven economy. Patrice also outlines her triage-inspired approach and invites listeners to connect with Career Nomad for guidance.

Patrice Williams-Lindo is not your average career strategist. As the CEO of Career Nomad, she’s a no-nonsense advocate for companies that want to break out of the talent retention rut and build a reputation for resilience and adaptability.

With over a decade in high-stakes consulting and a proven track record in the restoration and insurance sectors, she brings fresh, fearless insight to her audience.

Connect with Patrice on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • The impact of AI on the labor market and workforce development.
  • Challenges organizations face in implementing AI technologies.
  • Employee fears and misconceptions about AI replacing jobs.
  • The importance of reframing work from task completion to outcome-focused value.
  • Strategies for individual contributors to advocate for themselves and articulate their impact.
  • The role of transparent communication in building trust during AI implementation.
  • The significance of involving employees early in the AI adoption process.
  • The need for organizations to help employees understand and communicate their value.
  • Examples of Career Nomad’s approach to supporting students and workers in transition.
  • The importance of strategic thinking and precision in navigating the modern job market.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the CEO with Career nomad, Patrice Lindo. Welcome.

Patrice Lindo: Thank you so much, Lee. It’s a pleasure talking to you. I’m looking forward to our chat today.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Career Nomad. How are you serving folks?

Patrice Lindo: Oh my goodness. Well, as the founder of Career Nomad, we are working at the intersection of workforce development, leadership and AI. We basically help people and organizations navigate this uncertain labor market that’s moving faster than the speed of light, right? So we don’t have the systems to support it. And we’re trying to figure out what that looks like.

Lee Kantor: So who is your client? Is it the organization or is it the individual?

Patrice Lindo: Both. Both. Both both. Because what’s happening is that right now we’re not facing a talent shortage. Right? People are looking for jobs. We’re facing what they call a crisis. We have people that are being laid off. You know, AI is coming in and people feel like it’s taking their jobs. So, you know, as people are being told to reskill, upskill, pivot, we’re figuring out what they need to do next. Right. Because that slower, more predictable economy is gone.

Lee Kantor: So let’s take each constituent one at a time. And let’s start with the organization. What is kind of the pain the organization’s having where career nomad is available to help them? What what’s kind of their challenge that they’re dealing with where they need your help?

Patrice Lindo: Absolutely. So from an organizational perspective, right. Leadership is literally changing real time. It’s not just about the title in these organizations. It’s about what people need to do within this fast changing, you know, world as it speaks. So how can they help their employees? You know, that’s coming in every day to do their jobs as they know it, do it efficiently. Right. So, you know, how do we get people to understand that AI isn’t eliminating jobs wholesale, right? It’s basically just exposing those roles that were never clearly defined in the first place. So how do we help those organizations lead in a way that people can trust, so to speak, what’s in place to keep them employed, to keep them employable, and to help them innovate in a way that hits the bottom line, which is what the organization is ultimately care about. So we help them to navigate that, you know, how do they communicate to their employees? How do they let them know what they need to stop, start and continue? How do we, you know, have that conversation if in fact, their employees are going to be, you know, let go? What does that need to look like in a way that develops that sense of trust and also can, you know, match the changing needs as it relates to our, you know, our economy and the world as it’s changing.

Lee Kantor: So what does that kind of pain look like in the what’s happening kind of boots on the ground in that organization that they can recognize symptoms, that maybe they have an issue that they need your help with. Like what are they seeing? That should be kind of to you, a red flag, but to them might just be like a yellow flag.

Patrice Lindo: So the red flag would be, oh, you know, we got this new AI tool everybody’s going to use, for example. I don’t know, Claude, let’s just say or ChatGPT. And they’ve gotten it at the enterprise level, and you have a whole sector or sectors of your organization that don’t even know where to begin. So it gets to the place where the rules have changed and people don’t know what to do. And here it is. The organizations like, see, we are 21st century. We have brought in all of the amazing technology that AI has to offer, and you have people that are very mistrusting of it and feel like, oh my goodness, AI is taking my job. So it’s a red flag to the people that are on boots on the ground. But for the employers, it’s a yellow flag in a good way because hey, we’re getting ready to level up. So the conversation is more like teaching the organizers or the people within the organization that AI can be a multiplier, right? It teaches your your employees how to be clear, how to be strategic, and how to amplify the good work that they do. In other words, the messaging is that AI doesn’t replace people. It replaces ambiguity. So how should they be doing that differently? Right. Talent. You know, helping to teach people what the impact is that they need to do, not just complete tasks. If people are confused, they don’t know how to innovate, for example. So basically teaching them how to give career clarity as a retention strategy for those people that you actually want to keep.

Lee Kantor: So what I’m hearing you saying is that the organization thinks, hey, we’re being, you know, keeping up with the times because we’re leaning into this and we’re doing you a favor. This is helping you. Yes. And the employee is looking at it as like, oh, you’re just trying to replace me. And here I am just going to train some AI person to replace me.

Patrice Lindo: Correct? Correct, correct. So how do we bridge that? Excuse me. How do we bridge. Bridge that conversation. Because a lot of times, you know, people have been in these jobs for X number of years, you know, meeting their daily tasks and assignments and, you know, basically getting things over the line. Whereas now, you know, you can automate, for example, those tasks. So how do we rebrand them in a way that the work that they do still lands impact in a way that not only builds whatever the relationships are that your organization is building to sell whatever it is that they sell, but also in a way that people feel like they’re getting the employees feel like they’re getting something out of it as well, so you can recognize people truly for the value that they’re already delivering.

Lee Kantor: And so that’s so if an organization is thinking about implementing some AI solution, it’s probably a good idea to talk to you before they do that rather than to triage kind of something where you now have a trust issue after the fact.

Patrice Lindo: Absolutely. So take people on that journey. And when I say on the journey, it’s less about asking permission. It is still directional, like, hello XYZ employees, we have great information to share with you. We are going to be implementing AI. We’ll start out with a pilot, we’ll do X number of people in this particular department and then we’re going to roll it out. But again that communication right. That transparency in a way that it makes sense so that people feel less blindsided and more that they’re a part of the journey. That’s usually what decreases the level of anxiety and builds that credibility and trust.

Lee Kantor: All right. So let’s switch gears to the individual contributor. Um, when you’re working with that person, what are those conversations look like? Are are they kind of also living in this moment of fear? And they’re kind of not, you know, they’re kind of losing faith on all the expertise they have that it’s not going to be ready for the next kind of wave of technology.

Patrice Lindo: Absolutely. It typically starts there because here it is. They have, you know, met the moment where they have kept up their end of the contract, right, their end of the bargain, where they show up to work every day. They do their specific, you know, assignments and tasks and, you know, they’re they’re meeting, you know, kind of the need where they knew it to be. And so all of a sudden now it feels like the rug has been pulled out from under them because the things that they used to do now, you know, a machine, quote unquote, can do. And so then we have to reframe that to conversation. One of the things that I talk to them about is what are the outcomes, though, of the work that you do. So for example, if you take, let’s say nursing, for example, if you’re a nurse, excuse me. And you used to let’s say, you know, distribute medicine and take patients temperatures and maybe their blood pressures and that sort of thing. Now the hospitals may have brought in, let’s say, a robot. Right. To do those things. Now you can focus on, for example, the actual health of that patient as opposed to their, you know, vital signs.

Patrice Lindo: Not that the vital signs aren’t important, but the time that it would have taken you to do that, you can actually sit down and say, well, okay, if this patient has, let’s say, a particular heart disease or, you know, maybe they’ve broken a hip, you can find out what it is that they need to do to impact the outcome of getting that patient healthily out of the hospital, because before you still are expected to do that, but you were so mired down with those tasks, you were less focused, less able to focus on that. So it builds capacity. So we reframe that conversation conversation to capacity and outcomes. And what we found is that once people really take a step back from what they’re doing, they’re like, wait a minute, I have already been doing it. It’s just reframing the conversation. And that’s whether you’re in health care, education, consulting, you know, you name it. It’s just a matter of becoming less task oriented and more outcome focused and being able to articulate that now.

Lee Kantor: Do you think that that’s kind of at the heart of things that folks have been, I guess, kind of misguided in the in the way they’re defining their value? They think their value is completing 14 tasks during the day when their value is kind of like you described, is improving the outcome of the patient. That’s that’s the value. Not doing the 14 things. The 14 things were just kind of what you had to do in order to do the other thing.

Patrice Lindo: Correct, correct, correct. And I don’t know that it was misguided. I would say it’s a sign of the times, right? Because there have been times in our society where busyness, right, like motion was the thing to do. Like, oh my gosh, they’re running around like a chicken with their head cut off. Whereas to be honest, if you took a step back and really, you know, took as opposed to the 5000 foot view, the 20,000 foot view, we always should have been talking in terms of outcomes. But the way that society was set up, that was not necessarily rewarded. But now we’re being forced to evolve, right. So what is it? What’s the difference, so to speak, that you being in a particular role makes, for example. So if you were a consultant and you know, you worked with clients to, let’s say, figure out how to make their process more efficient, let’s say if they were, you know, producing beans. Well, at one point, you know, people used to count the beans, you know, figure out the quality of the beans and then figure out which could be packaged. Well, now you can have that first half, you know, automated, and you can talk about maybe different markets that could use your beads, or maybe different uses for the beads. So this is where your inner entrepreneur, um, within organizations can really come to life. And so I think, you know, there were a few that did that before, you know, relatively speaking. But now that the shift has happened, right. So I, I call it less misguided and more evolved.

Lee Kantor: Now the, the genie’s out of the bottle, right. Like this is not we’re not going back anymore. This is you. You better accept this and and learn how to leverage it rather than complain about it. Right.

Patrice Lindo: Absolutely. No. You’re absolutely right. She’s definitely going not going back in the bottle. And you know this is a reckoning of sorts right. It comes to a place where if you can translate your value in a way that is meaningful to the person or the entity that you’re talking to. So think about, let’s say, performance conversations at the end of the year, if you can translate what you’ve done over that year or that whatever that marking period into value that that, that boss, you know, can appreciate for that organization. Then you don’t have an issue. It’s those that are, you know, kind of vague, not really sure they’re talking about, like you said, the 14 tasks that are suffering at this point. So you got to get on this bus because it’s left the station for sure.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any advice that you would give, uh, kind of an individual contributor right now? What can they do to kind of elevate themselves into one of those people that are the the people that the organization is going to invest time and resource into? What can they do to upskill in order to kind of leverage this moment?

Patrice Lindo: I’d say your very first step is to turn invisible work into visible value, because there isn’t an algorithm, right, that’s going to come and advocate for you. You you are your own best advocate. So if you think of your career as an ecosystem, you can create your own stability. You can talk about, you know, this is what you’ve done over this marking period. And these are the outcomes you’ve driven. This is how you’ve increased value. This is how you’ve collaborated with other, other groups. For example, in your organization. This is how you’ve gotten, you know, more efficiency, um, you know, when it relates to your work, but you have to speak in terms of outcomes that meet the goals of that organization, um, of that team, um, of that particular industry, whatever the case might be. But you’ve got to share those distinguishing characteristics. So it’s less about, oh my God, I work, you know, 30 hours a day. And, you know, I’ve done a hundred things. It’s like, no, at the end of the day, what did those things mean? Who did they benefit. And it basically creates this ability you’re looking forward to. Right. You know that optionality that you know, you’re not a one trick pony, so to speak. But these are the things you drive. So for example, Um, when I work in consulting, I talk about not just how I’m going to coach, for example, my team, but I also talk about how infrastructure, the infrastructure that I’m building as it relates to change management impacts, you know, an 800 000 person organization or talk about how in healthcare, you know, this one tweak can make this particular difference. And so you again, you live outside of your title and really build beyond that into the ecosystem of whatever industry you’re working in and the impact that it creates.

Lee Kantor: Now, from the company standpoint, what advice would you give them when they’re kind of, um, dealing with their talent to get the most out of them, to keep them and keep them happy, and to attract the right folks to the team.

Patrice Lindo: They need to help their talent articulate impact, because that’s not quote unquote normal yet that’s a learned behavior. So I’m going to date myself. But do you remember, gosh, probably now maybe 20 or so years ago when they started talking about lean and the different belts you could get or, um, project management, professional certifications. Again, that was something that, you know, leadership had to bring into the conversation because you had onesie twosie people doing it. But as leaders began to talk about the importance of having these certifications and what that could do for forward progression, not only for organizations but for individuals, people took that advice. So they definitely have to help articulate what impact looks like, sounds like what they’re expecting, not just, hey, did you do your ten tasks because it teaches people how to not only be clearer about what they do, but also be strategic about the work that they’re doing.

Lee Kantor: So now, is there a story you can share that can demonstrate the value you provide when you’re working with either a business client or an individual?

Patrice Lindo: Absolutely. So one of the things that I’ve done most recently is that I have a framework that’s called Built different. So it basically means understanding the system that you’re operating in and then moving accordingly. Not louder, not faster, just smarter. So it’s not hustle culture, it’s precision. And so there is, um, an academic organization that I am currently working with. And as I work with them, one of the issues that they have is that typically in this particular, um, university, people would be sought out, right, based on the way that they, uh, the work that they’re doing, companies and organizations would come to their students and say, hey, we need you. We want you. You know, there’s a waiting list. Like, do you have more people? Well, as the economy has changed now, what’s happening is that you have people that are working full time that are going to the university in the evening. You have people that are just out of school that have gone through the program and are getting ready to graduate, and both of those populations now need support getting jobs because you have the people that are working full time that in some cases may have been laid off or have had a reduction in force, or they have an impending layoff. Then you have students that are graduating, excuse me, that the job market just isn’t there because of all the changes happening in the world. And so I had to literally bring to them in a way that it would make sense to them that they can support their student.

Patrice Lindo: And by that I mean we had to be super strategic. What can we do to support their students that are, you know, unfortunately, dealing with forced transitions? And then also how can they prepare their students that are getting ready to graduate in a way that makes sense? And so as I work with them, one of the things that we do is consistently talk about how people can show up. What is the work that they need to do? What are the conversations that they need to have? And so based on that, I outlined a small time bound concept where they intentionally, practically have a shared responsibility of making the connection to that school meaningful but manageable as they anchor the work that the students do. So basically, the students we are looking to retain their current employment or reposition them effectively after job loss. We help them to translate their prior experience into credible, market ready roles today. And then we help to reduce employment related stress. Right. That usually, you know, impacts in this case academic performance graduate performance. And then basically how can they navigate this in their labor market. So the initial cohort had uh seven students. So it was a small it was a pilot that we are going to scale. And then we targeted specific students within this, um, a university that are invested, but that really fit the use case of either being recently laid off or at some elevated risk.

Patrice Lindo: And their adult learners that are balancing work and family in school. And so through doing that, we did a workforce readiness assessment that focused on their employment stability, their transferable skills and any, you know, market positioning gaps. Then we did, um, I think it’s three. Yeah, three different stabilizing sessions where we addressed like job retention strategies and unstable markets. We talked about how to reposition themselves after layoffs or any sort of disruption, and really helping them to get that narrative clarity. The ones that I was talking about before, how to speak to their impact, um, in a way that demonstrates value and experience and direction. And it went really, really well. Like we had two people that had been laid off. They were able to find additional employment. We have some of the students that are currently in school that are getting ready to graduate, that were able to get internships, so it really helped them to get to a place where they were positioned in a better direction for their career in a clearer way. They had like market aligned, um, conversations so that when they were talking with prospective employers that they were demonstrating that outcome value and they had realistic next steps. You know, as it relates to how to plan specific to their circumstances.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there, um, a niche or a best fit client for you, or is your work kind of industry agnostic?

Patrice Lindo: It’s industry agnostic because what we found is that, you know, when people think less from an individual contributor and more from an industry professional, regardless of what that industry is, that’s what begins to create that stability. So I work with individuals and organizations that, um, they come to me with their problem, and then I help them figure out what their space is, because usually it’s that insecurity and instability that’s brought them to me. So once we can sit down and have some sort of assessment, like I was saying, you know, to see where they are as far as readiness goes, figure out how to stabilize them and then basically what their plan is right to roll it out. So it’s basically triaging them similar to what would happen in an emergency room, but with respect to their career or with an organization with respect to supporting the um organizations, employees or students in the case of a school.

Lee Kantor: So what is the best way to connect with you? Is there a website or socials that.

Patrice Lindo: Um, absolutely, absolutely. Across all socials. You can find me at the Career Nomad. Um, and then website is Career Nomad. Org.

Lee Kantor: Well, Patrice, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Patrice Lindo: Thank you so much for having me, and I look forward to speaking with you again in the future.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Navigating Workplace Conflict: The Essential Role of Emotional Intelligence in Team Success

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Navigating Workplace Conflict: The Essential Role of Emotional Intelligence in Team Success
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor interviews emotional intelligence coach Emily Morash. Emily explains the fundamentals of emotional intelligence (EQ), emphasizing self-awareness and social awareness as keys to reducing workplace conflict and improving team dynamics. She discusses how EQ is not fixed, but can be developed through understanding personal triggers and embracing diverse perspectives. Emily shares practical strategies for leaders to foster psychological safety, overcome bias, and build more resilient, productive teams. The episode highlights the transformative impact of emotional intelligence on leadership, collaboration, and organizational success.

Emily Morash, an Emotional Intelligence Coach, keynote speaker, and author of Unfunk Yourself: Leading Mindfully in the Midst of Mayhem. With over two decades in nonprofit leadership, Emily saw firsthand how even the best strategies can crumble under stress, miscommunication, and emotional burnout.

Today, she helps executives and teams bridge the gap between strategy and self-awareness—bringing neuroscience, mindfulness, and emotional intelligence into real-world leadership. Her message is especially relevant for leaders navigating post-pandemic challenges like hybrid teams, burnout, and the growing demand for human-centered management.

Her approach is science-backed, refreshingly candid, and actionable—offering practical frameworks that make emotional intelligence more than a buzzword.

Connect with Emily on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Definition and components of emotional intelligence (EQ): self-awareness and social awareness.
  • The dynamic nature of emotional intelligence and its context-dependent fluctuations.
  • The role of emotional intelligence in reducing workplace conflict and misunderstandings.
  • Importance of understanding personal triggers and reactions in professional settings.
  • The significance of creating a culture of psychological safety within organizations.
  • The impact of diverse communication styles and organizational language on team dynamics.
  • Strategies for fostering empathy and collaboration among team members.
  • The balance between hiring similar individuals and those with diverse thinking styles for innovation.
  • Addressing bias in hiring and team composition to create inclusive environments.
  • Practical exercises for leaders to enhance their emotional intelligence and improve team effectiveness.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Emotional Intelligence coach, keynote speaker, and author with Hampton Morash, Emily Morash. Welcome.

Emily Morash: Thanks, Lee. How are you?

Lee Kantor: I am doing well. I’m so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your firm. How you serving folks?

Emily Morash: I am an emotional intelligence educator. I do a whole lot of workshops and coaching. I work with all types of companies nonprofit, for profit, small, medium sized companies working with their leadership teams to help them be a little bit more connected and efficient with their own teams, and helping teams connect to one another so that we have some productivity and we lessen burnout.

Lee Kantor: Now, for folks who aren’t familiar, can you share a little bit about emotional intelligence? What does that mean and how does it kind of affect an organization?

Emily Morash: Absolutely. Yeah. Emotional intelligence has become kind of a buzzword, which is a little annoying because when things become buzzwords, we lose the actual meaning. So emotional intelligence, really, when we boil it down, is are you self-aware and are you socially aware? And to be emotionally intelligent, it’s imperative that we’re socially aware. First, we have to understand ourselves. We have to understand our triggers. We have to understand what makes us tick, what we like, what we don’t like, and why. And that translates heavily into the workplace, because we are constantly navigating other human beings who also have their own triggers, things they like. They don’t like, the ways they function, which are different than ours. So. So when I work with companies on building emotional intelligence. It’s not this, like, frou frou fluffy crap. It’s like you’re a human and the people you work with are humans and you’re all different. And we are persistently, consistently misinterpreting other people’s signals and other people’s behavior. And this is where we run into a lot of conflict. So a big piece of what I do when I’m working with companies and leaders, excuse me and teams, is we’re working on where the conflict is actually coming from. And typically it’s somebody’s own lens of how they are viewing the world around them. So emotional intelligence really boils down to, are you self-aware? And from that, are you socially aware? Can you function well with other people? And that sounds kind of like sort of basic, and it kind of is, but it’s a foundation that holds up all of our relationships.

Lee Kantor: Now. I think some of the confusion around this is when they refer to EQ. A lot of people are familiar with IQ, and when they hear IQ they think, oh, the higher the number then the smarter I am. And is it work in the same way with EQ? Is it a similar thing? The higher the number you are, the more, um, emotionally intelligent you are.

Emily Morash: Um, I guess that’s kind of a that’s a good question. Um, and I really think it’s, it’s in the application of the EQ. So, I mean, it’s sort of the application of IQ as well. You can have numbers all over the place, but if you can’t necessarily apply what you think that means, then it doesn’t really matter. So um, so I guess, you know, if you’re, if you’re taking and there are so many different EQ assessments, right? So there’s not it’s similar, there’s a few IQ tests as well. So what are you actually measuring? Um, and I feel like some of these assessments give a false they kind of give false information about how emotionally intelligent you are, because you’re taking assessments in a vacuum of a test where really the application is in the middle of a conversation or a disagreement or an argument, um, or, you know, with your spouse where, where you’re having some really significant, difficult long term conversations. That is where the application comes in. So you I guess you can score really well, whatever that means in an IQ test. But can you actually apply it? And so not that I don’t discourage people from taking these assessments. It’s really good to know where you are. And it gives you an idea of how you think about particular things. But it’s hard to get a grasp via an assessment on how a human looks at the world around them, and how you navigate with that world is really. It’s the practice that tells you how emotionally intelligent you are and isn’t.

Lee Kantor: Um, is it fixed? Like an IQ is kind of fixed. Um, is an EQ fixed where you are, where you are, and then you just learn tools to adapt around wherever you are. Or is this something that I think this is where there’s, um, a gray area and maybe creates confusion because, um, using EQ versus I or people are going to think about IQ, uh, when you hear EQ, because IQ has been around a lot longer than EQ has. So I think that it does it a disservice by using that frame. But so how would you is your EQ fixed number one. And if it is or isn’t a what can you do to just be better at it? Is it something? Is it learn that you can just have, you know, different tools and skills just to be kind of the most, most intelligent, emotionally intelligent as you can be.

Emily Morash: This is a really cool question, and I’m glad that you asked this. So, so no, nothing is. When we talk about neuroscience and psychology, which emotional intelligence is rooted in both. Nothing is fixed. Um, our emotional intelligence ebbs and flows related to whatever stimulus we’re trying to navigate at the time. And so let me give you an example. So, um, every whoever’s listening, I’m sure you all have a job, right? Or you have worked for people. And so if you are fairly uncomfortable with your boss, um, your emotional intelligence level related to, like, navigating that relationship might be a little bit lower because Neuroscientifically speaking, when your boss, um, gives you a project or criticizes your work. The way your brain interprets that is probably different than when your best friend tells you something. They may be criticized. So it’s important. I have to kind of like tell you a story, to tell you a story, to get to this place. So our brains are limbic system specifically, is constantly scanning our environment to determine whether we are safe or not. When our limbic system comes up against a stimulus that it determines is not safe, it sends your brain into survival mode. When that happens, our logical thinking brain, that executive functioning brain goes offline because our our survival brain is trying to get us prepared to either fight or flee. What this has to do with emotional intelligence. And this goes back to the Know Thyself piece. The whole self-awareness piece is if you work with someone or you work in an environment that is constantly piquing your survival brain, your logic center is offline more than it’s online. And so your ability to actually navigate intellectually is diminished. So therefore the emotional intelligence in that moment is lower than it would be if you were in an environment that you’re comfortable in, or working with someone who makes you more comfortable.

Emily Morash: I hope that makes sense. I mean, and that’s why I’m saying this, it’s not fixed. Um, and anything can be learned. But really, this is this is a practice of sitting down with yourself and understanding. What is it that that triggers me? Um, so if I, if I don’t like my boss, well, why don’t I like my boss? Is it is it just because there’s more of an authoritarian relationship here, or is there something about that person that really bothers me? What is that? Why does it bother me? So it’s having these exploratory conversations with yourself to understand why you react the way you do around certain people. So, um, the emotional intelligence piece really starts with that conversation with yourself about, you know, pick somebody that you work with that you don’t like. Why don’t you like them? There are reasons other than that person’s a jerk. Okay, so let’s dive down a little bit further. Why is that person a jerk? But really being able to to recognize that that person is tripping your limbic system into your survival brain and you feel a fight or flight around that person instead of staying logical. So. So that’s a really long answer to your question, but it’s important that people understand that EQ isn’t this static thing, and it’s not something that you can aspire to because it’s not a fixed it’s not a fixed, um, object. Right. It’s not like you’re trying to get a personal record on A5K, like it doesn’t work that way. It really has to do with how your own brain is wired and how you’re interpreting all the various stimuli around you.

Lee Kantor: Now, how is an organization, a leader of an organization? Um, how are they best situated to give everybody the feeling of safety where they don’t get into that fight or flight mode, uh, in order to be their best self in the organization, because that the person that is triggering me say it might not really be a them problem, it might be just be a me problem. Like, how does an organization kind of understand, um, you know, who the problem people are and, and, um, and what can they do to help those people, you know, create that, um, culture of safety in order to get the most out of everybody without anybody. You know, if I don’t even know if this is possible without people getting defensive about kind of the way they are, um, showing up at work.

Emily Morash: This I love so much that you asked this. And I kind of want to piggyback on something that you said, which was maybe that’s not really a you problem. It’s a, it’s a me problem. Right. And when we look at conflict and so when I talk to when I go into companies, usually I’m brought in because there is some sort of conflict in a team.

Lee Kantor: But is it like you got to fix a fix, Bob? Is that like they’re hiring you to fix Bob or they’re they do.

Emily Morash: Yeah. They’re like, we got this person. And he kind of sucks. And I’m like, really? Let’s see what’s going on. And a lot of times when I come in, um, the conflict and I’m using air quotes, the conflict has to do with some communication styles and and challenges. But really when we look at this sort of stuff, nine times out of ten, what we’re looking at is self-awareness issues among the team. So when we talk about conflict, people tend to see conflict as something that is outside themselves. That has to be fixed, right? When really conflict is your own mindset about a thing. So, like, Lee, if you and I, um, were traversing the highways in Atlanta to go to a concert, right. And we are inevitably going to hit traffic, and we might be driving. And here we are in traffic, and I start freaking out because we’re in traffic. In this freaking traffic in Atlanta. Can’t you get your highways together? What’s the problem? Blah, blah blah. And I’m all sorts of mad because I want to get to the venue where you are like, you know what? This gives us more time to listen to this band’s new album. This is really not a big deal. So the traffic is the traffic, right? But how we see the traffic is where the conflict comes in. I see it as this massive problem. You don’t see it as a big deal, but the traffic hasn’t changed. So it’s the same thing when we’re looking at workplace dynamics. And to get to your your question about what can leaders do, really the answer is get to know your people.

Emily Morash: And it’s what’s wild is when I say to different leaders, I’m like, so tell me about, you know, let’s say they’re bringing me in to fix Bob. Bob’s a problem. Bill would tell me about Bob. And they’ll be like, oh my God, he you know, he’s entirely too serious and he doesn’t know how to take a joke, and he’s just. And all these things. Right? And, well, tell me about, you know, how does Bob communicate? What’s his communication style? Typically they don’t know. And, well, what’s his motivation style? They typically don’t know what makes Bob’s clock tick. They typically don’t know. So what we tend to do as humans and everybody does this, and this isn’t like because we’re terrible people, it’s just how we’re wired. We see the world through our own lens. And and then we apply because we don’t necessarily think outside ourselves. We apply our lens to everyone else. So if I’m the kind of person at work that likes to cut jokes and I like to chat with people, whatever, the person who doesn’t like to joke and doesn’t like to chat with people, well, I’m going to see them as a problem because through my lens, that’s how you’re supposed to function. But Bob might just be a when I’m at work, it is nose to the grindstone. I get my stuff done. Socializing is for after 5:00. Et cetera. Et cetera. It’s actually not a problem. So what leaders need to do is really take stock of who is on your team. And if you have a quote problem unquote person, what is the actual problem? Is it a perception like do you really have someone that’s not doing their job? Or is this a perception issue? And so a lot of times I talk about how conflict is a construct, and the construct comes from our own mental roadmap of how things ought to be.

Emily Morash: And if they don’t match our roadmap, then they are a problem. But for other people that’s not a problem. So. So it really is for leaders and teams. It’s understanding one. Everybody’s different and there’s nothing wrong with that. We all say that in theory. Oh, everybody’s great. Diversity is great. But it’s in the practice of this person is a complete opposite personality Than mine, but we still have to figure out how to work together and not see it as a conflict. And so it really does come down to get to know your people. And there’s a ton of tools that I offer. Um, they’re actually in the book. There’s a communication style assessment in the book that I wrote that helps people understand the nuances of how people communicate, which is really a foundation of how we all function together, um, and, and other types of tools related to how do people, how are people motivated, what matters to them most in their life? Are they a work hard, play hard? Are they a work to live? Live to work like what? Who are these people? Because they’re not. We’re not all like widgets in a machine. We’re humans. And every human has a different method of being motivated. And when leaders can learn what those are, they’re incredibly powerful and then they create incredibly powerful teams.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, is some of this or it sounds like a lot of this is just clarity around communication, even the word conflict, I don’t know, is it has a lot of, uh, emotion and it has a lot of semantic weight where friction to me has less, even though they might mean similar things. Um, you know, friction creates diamonds. Uh, conflict kind of in some people’s minds might create, you know, arguments or fights and might be seen as a negative. Uh, how much of your work is kind of just getting everybody on the same page when it comes to using language, um, more effectively and creating more clarity around, look, we’re all in this together. You know, like you said, Bob is a live to work. And then, you know, Mary is a work to live. They but we all want the company to do well. We just have to kind of get on the same page and understand, um, you know, where we are instead of, like you said, reverting maybe to our own internal biases. Like if, if I am a work to live. And my boss’s boss is a work to live. We might be kind of simpatico where if the middle person isn’t, that person looks like a, you know, oh, they’re the problem. When in fact we’re just kind of just reaching ourselves. But we’re not kind of aligned on on how we are and how to communicate.

Emily Morash: Um, right. So, um, to answer the question, all of it, all of my work, it’s getting people on the same page. You cannot read from the same book unless you are on the same page. And so it is the idea behind the workshops are getting everybody to understand the neuroscience behind their existence and then diving into what is communication? What does it look like? What are the behaviors look like? What is your communication style? What are the things that matter to you? And having having leaders and teams do this work together in person and actually seeing there’s so many. It’s the stuff that I do is very interactive, um, where people are literally learning right now on the fly with each other. And, and I see so many light bulbs go off. It it’s it’s very cool. Um, watching people go, oh, my God, I didn’t know about that. Know that about you or. Oh, I, I didn’t understand that about you or like, oh, that’s why we have a hard time communicating because we’re actually saying the same thing. But our interpretation of what we’re saying is different. So we do the purpose of the workshops. The purpose of my work is to get human beings to be socially aware and empathetic to the other people with whom they’re working. And so instead of seeing somebody as a competition to you or some kind of weirdo that works different, it’s broadening the perspectives to not only understand yourself, which is something that we immediately do when we start working in these workshops, is we we’re doing a ton of self-awareness work.

Emily Morash: But then also, what does that mean? How does that translate out when you are judging or assessing your coworkers? So because what you said earlier about like, you might be, you know, a work to live kind of person and your boss’s boss might be. So you guys think that you’re on, you know, the right team, and then you got this other person and they’re a weirdo instead of rolling it back and understanding, oh, all these people function differently. But at the end of the day, we’re all getting the work done and we’re all building the company the way we’re expected to. We just get to it differently. So it’s taking a look at that, that, um, the conflict, which, you know, the construct of the conflict. And I appreciate what you say about like friction versus conflict, but they’re really the same thing because friction also causes burns. So how are you defining the words that you’re using? So in those workshops we absolutely talk about language. Language matters greatly. And then how are we defining what we’re defining. And and certainly, you know, each team, each company, their language is going to be different than another company or another organization. So it’s very company specific on on the words, the language that they’re using and what it all means, but definitely getting everybody on the same page and broadening perspectives so that um, so that the considerations for everybody’s, you know, nuances are considered, um, is incredibly important to get anything done.

Lee Kantor: Now at different stages of an organization. Is it better to hire people that are more simpatico, or is it better to have kind of, uh, contrarians in the mix as you at the beginning stages of an organization?

Emily Morash: That’s such a great question. So it’s funny that you bring that up, because I’m actually in the middle of this right now with the company. Um, I will have. Every time I work with a company, I will have executive leadership team or their board of directors do this communication style assessment. And a lot of times we have a whole lot of a similar style, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. However, you need people who think differently than you. Um, who function a little bit differently than you because that’s where you’re going to get a, a more functional team. If everybody does stuff the same exact way to get from A to B, you’ll get from A to B, but you might have someone who understands there’s a more efficient way or a more lucrative way to do something, but you’ve never invited them in because they think differently than you do. So like, for example, um, I there’s this one board of directors I’m working with right now, and they have a lot of very, um, uh, relationship based. You know, they’re all about going and finding the donors. And they’re they’re all about the relationship with the people they’re serving. And this is all very good. They don’t have anybody on their board to hit the gas and make stuff happen.

Emily Morash: Not only that, they don’t have anyone on the board who’s super analytical to sit down and say, well, I’m looking at our fundraising projects and I’m looking at this, um, you know, our pipeline and our goals, and you think we’re going to hit $1.2 million in the next year, but we’re not we’re looking at 600,000. And so there’s you need to have these different styles of thinking and these different styles of communicating in a team setting to make sure that everything is being thought about. You have people who are more innovative and then people who are more analytical. These are very good things. They might not like each other, but that’s not the point. The point is, is that you’ve got some work to do. You want to raise $1.2 million. You need somebody who knows how to hit the gas on fundraising and somebody who knows how to analyze the budget. And so, um, is it good to have people who are similar to you? Sure. But it’s really important to find those people who are going to challenge you as well. Um, people are afraid to do that. This goes back to the neuroscience. This goes back to how our limbic system is interpreting different stimuli.

Emily Morash: And when we sit with someone who doesn’t agree with us or they think differently, we might. And this is subconscious. We feel threatened, we feel threatened, and then we don’t like that person. We can’t tell you exactly why. I just don’t like them. I just they rub me the wrong way. And that right there is a clear sign that your limbic system has hijacked your survival brain. And now you’re not thinking clearly about the skills and the talents that that person might bring to the table. And so the challenge for leaders, and this is a big thing that I work on with leaders is challenging that gut reaction that, oh, I don’t like that person. Well, why not? I just I don’t know, I just don’t like them. And that’s not a real reason. And so does that person have the skills that you need to be on this team to drive this team forward. If they do, then you need to figure out the conflict is your own deal, not them. And so, um, so to answer your question, it’s kind of a mix of both, but you don’t want to have everybody on your team be exactly like you because that’s not going to get you anywhere.

Lee Kantor: And I think that what you’re saying is where those kind of subconscious biases come in, you know, like if you went to Harvard and you’re preferring Harvard people, you might not be to, you know, uh, jazzed about the Stanford person that’s coming in that might look at things in a totally different way than you do because you just, you know, have been around and prefer people who have gone through the same path you have.

Emily Morash: Oh, sure. I mean, that that kind of tiptoes into all sorts of conversations about bias, that man, that’s a whole different conversation. But like, do you hire people who look like you? Do you hire people who sound like you? Do you hire people that graduated from a university? That do you think is more prestigious than the university that you went to or like, what are you basing your decisions on and are they truly fact based or are they emotional based? And and so this again comes back to the self-awareness work that we do, the emotional intelligence piece of understanding why you think what you think and how you got there. Um, so but yes, it’s important to be able to examine, um, how you’re interpreting people and in and environments and colleges like, to your point, um, and, and various ideas that are coming in to the companies.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a piece of advice you can share right now for leaders to at least get a taste of, of how the impact of emotional intelligence can affect their organization? Is there some low hanging fruit that anybody could do right now, today that can, um, help their organization?

Emily Morash: Oh, yeah. So okay. All right. Leaders who are listening. Here’s what I want you to do. I want you to grab a piece of paper and a pen. Pencil. And I want you to make two columns. And on one column I want you to write worst, and on the other, I want you to write best. And then I want you to think about the worst boss you ever had. And I want you to write down adjectives of the worst boss you ever, ever had and give that some time. And I’m sure you will fill up the page and it will be a whole thing, and you’re probably going to get, like, sweaty while you’re doing it. Because we have we have a physical reactions when we do these emotional things. And then I want you to, when you’re done with that, take a big breath and then go over to the other side of the page and write down the adjectives of the very best boss you ever had, and what you will notice when you go to analyze what you wrote down. It has everything to do with your boss’s level of emotional intelligence. A lot of times when people write down the worst stuff like disrespectful, violent, demeaning, um, avoidant, there’s all sorts of things on this side of the list, and it’s all social and emotional aspects of how that leader has worked.

Emily Morash: It has nothing to do with their KPIs and their performance measures and their outcomes versus their projections. Like has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with how they functioned as a human with other humans. And so that’s the first kind of like, I guess, look into the emotional intelligence piece. The self and social awareness piece of how we’re existing means everything. And like when you’re looking at that worst list, how productive were you for that boss? How productive did you actually want to be for that? But maybe you gave it 100%, but you really only wanted to give 70. And when you look at the best boss side, what do you want to do for them? 120. Why? Because they were more emotionally intelligent. And so it matters when we look at productivity. And we know this when there’s when there’s low psychological safety on teams production drops. You know, there’s a phrase like happy employees or productive employees. Well, yes. And the reason they’re happy is because their psychological safety on the team, and that comes from emotionally intelligent people on the team and that comes from doing the work.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there, um, kind of an avatar you use for an ideal client? You mentioned some work in nonprofit and for profit. Is there kind of a sweet spot in terms of your work, or is there kind of qualities that, uh, the right organization is a best fit client for you?

Emily Morash: You know, this is going to be like the worst answer because we’re all told we’re supposed to have our model client. But really, if you’re a human and you have humans that work for you, that is my ideal client. And I’m not kidding. It does not matter the size of the team. It doesn’t matter if your for profit, nonprofit, small, medium, large. I work with municipalities and state. I work with huge state organizations. I work with little bitty nonprofit. It doesn’t matter. It’s working with the humans and working with the teams. And so if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my God, my team could definitely learn to communicate a little bit better, well then yeah, you’re my kind of client because this is and one and here’s the here’s the sneaky thing Lee. We do this in the workplace, right? Like I do a lot of these workshops, workshops in the workplace, but we don’t live our lives in a vacuum. So like when you leave work and you go home, your emotional intelligence, your self-awareness that’s going to come with you. One of the most amazing emails I ever got was a couple of years ago, I had actually done I have this my signature workshop is called the Mindful Leader Practice, and I had done this with this huge law firm. And um, and I received an email, uh, maybe like a month and a half later from one of the folks that was in the workshop and it said, your workshop helped me at work, certainly. And our team is getting better, but I’m pretty sure it saved my marriage.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, these skills are transferable to all parts of your life, that’s for sure.

Emily Morash: So there’s like no ideal client, there’s no ideal industry. There’s no ideal age. It is if you’re a bunch of humans that are trying to work together and you’re finding that you’re just not well oiled machines, then you probably need a little bit of of EQ work.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more and connect with you or your team, what is the website? What is the best way to connect?

Emily Morash: They can get Ahold of me through, um, it’s Hampton morass. Com and, um. Yeah, that’s the easiest way to find me.

Lee Kantor: Well, Emily, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

Emily Morash: Thanks, Lee. I appreciate you having me on. It’s been such a pleasure.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Empowering Communities: Melanin Money’s Mission to Educate and Build Wealth for All

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Empowering Communities: Melanin Money's Mission to Educate and Build Wealth for All
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor interviews George Acheampong, founder of Melanin Money. George discusses the company’s mission to close the racial wealth gap by $100 billion through free financial education, workshops, and personalized advisory services. He explains Melanin Money’s approach to cash flow, tax strategies, investments, risk management, and estate planning, emphasizing the importance of patience and long-term wealth building. The episode highlights Melanin Money’s commitment to empowering people of color nationwide with accessible resources and expert guidance for achieving generational financial security.

George Acheampong is a recognized thought leader in finance and entrepreneurship, serving as the Founder and Managing Partner of Capitalwize, LLC, a financial planning and investment management firm dedicated to helping aspiring and current first-generation millionaires build lasting legacies for their families.

He is also the Founder of Melanin Money, the #1 brand for wealth builders of color. Through merchandise, targeted initiatives, and programming, Melanin Money aims to close the racial wealth gap by 10%.

Connect with George on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Financial literacy and its importance in wealth building.
  • Strategies to close the racial wealth gap, specifically targeting a $100 billion reduction.
  • The mission of Melanin Money to create inclusive wealth-building opportunities for people of color.
  • The role of free financial education through various platforms, including podcasts and workshops.
  • Personalized wealth advisory services and their significance in financial planning.
  • The ideal client profiles for Melanin Money, focusing on high-earning professionals and business owners.
  • The importance of cash flow management and tax strategies in wealth accumulation.
  • The challenges of transitioning from traditional employment to entrepreneurship in financial services.
  • The impact of misinformation in financial education, particularly among younger audiences.
  • The long-term mindset required for sustainable wealth building and the dangers of seeking quick financial fixes.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the founder of Melanin Money, George Acheampong. Welcome.

George Acheampong: Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about Melanin Money Mission purpose. How are you serving folks?

George Acheampong: Absolutely. So Melanin Money is a platform designed to create inclusive opportunities for people of color to build wealth. We are on a mission to decrease the wealth gap by $100 billion. Our clients have improved their collective net worth by over $244 million in the last 12 months and counting, and so just really excited to bring wealth building to underrepresented communities.

Lee Kantor: So how does it work? How does someone kind of join the opportunity? And is this an educational platform? Is it an investment platform or is it both?

George Acheampong: Yeah, it’s kind of a a generational wealth ecosystem if you will. So we have a couple of entry points. So number one we have our media and financial literacy platform. So we have a free for everybody. So we have a podcast that airs every week where we dive into various financial topics. We also produce obviously lots of content online. In addition to that, we have a free a community education platform people can tap into and join. We do live workshops about 52 times a year. Last year we taught over 30,000 people for free. And then of course, we have a full scale attacks and wealth advisory firm. So for those who are ready for a little more hands on support and want to hire their money team, we also have that available as well.

Lee Kantor: So what is kind of the path for the person that wants to increase their wealth? Like it sounds, a lot of it is content and a lot of free content that is kind of for the do it yourselfer. That would just kind of learn and then kind of go off on their own and do some of the recommendations. But ultimately, are you trying to move them into being a client at the wealth management? Is that part of it?

George Acheampong: Yeah. You know, obviously, you know, everybody may not be at a place where they need a full scale wealth management advisor or a money team. But um, so the pathway is we do a virtual five day workshop. And basically the thought process is there is we want to educate and coach people on the top strategies that have helped our clients get results. And at the end of that workshop, we invite people to the opportunity to work with our team intimately. And so this is the best of both worlds, because those who aren’t yet ready, they just got five days of training on the top strategies that we work with for our clients and then those who are ready to move forward. Then they are invited to to start working with our team.

Lee Kantor: Do you mind sharing some of those kind of top tenets that you recommend.

George Acheampong: Yeah, I think we’ll be helpful is I kind of I’ll go through kind of our advisory framework. Um, so first thing is we everything starts with cash flow, because if you don’t have a good pulse on how you are managing your money, then we’re not going to have the available resources to allocate towards building wealth after we go through cash flow, the cash flow matrix, then we dive into tax strategy. Um, we create a plan for our clients to save more money on taxes, because if they stop giving away unnecessary money to Uncle Sam, then they’ll have extra money to be able to invest. Then we move on to investment in wealth building. Um, and really get a clear pulse on what our client’s goals are, uh, what their time horizon is on, when they want to retire and ultimately develop a wealth building plan to make sense for them. Um, and then we address risk management, um, making sure they have all the right types and amounts of insurances in place, whether that’s, uh, health insurance, property and casualty, Um, disability life insurance, whatever the case may be, and make sure that that is dialed in. And then last but not least, uh, we move on to estate planning to make sure that they can protect and preserve their wealth that they’re building on to the next generation. Um, and and, of course, I can speak more specifically to some of our, like, flagship strategies that that’s helpful too.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m just trying to get an idea for the listener, uh, ways to plug in. What would be the most beneficial to them? Is your the ideal kind of prospect for this, the aspirational person who is just kind of grinding and doesn’t know what to do? Or is it the person that maybe has been burned, uh, like, who is kind of the avatar for your ideal client?

George Acheampong: Yeah, I would say the avatar for our ideal client is on from a working professional standpoint, is someone who’s making, you know, at least $150,000 a year in income. Um, who’s who’s seeing that? A decent amount of their income is being kind of eaten up in taxes and is looking for a way to, uh, save more money in taxes and ultimately use that tax savings to build more wealth on the business owner entrepreneur side. I would say a business owner whose business is doing at least over, you know, 250 to maybe half $1 million in revenue. Um, and they focus a lot on growing their business. But ultimately, um, want to start focusing on prioritizing their personal wealth building. Um, I would say those are kind of our two ideal sweet spots for clients.

Lee Kantor: So it’s people who have a little bit of escape velocity, but maybe aren’t kind of maximizing it to get to the next level.

George Acheampong: Correct.

Lee Kantor: And do you find the people that are maybe the people that are making 150 grand or so are they are just they’re just kind of not doing anything with their money, like to, to be making that kind of money. That means you’re either at a job that has probably benefits, that has 401 that has some of these things that they could be doing to expand their wealth. Are they just not tapping into that or they’re not? They don’t know how to maximize it.

George Acheampong: Yeah. Great question. So to your point, someone who’s making, you know, $150,000, you know, they they, they figured out the money making part at least on one level. But I look at it in three major buckets. You it’s the money you make, how you manage it and how you maximize it. Right. And just because someone’s making decent money doesn’t mean they’ve ever been taught the best way to manage it. And it definitely doesn’t mean that they’ve been taught the best way to maximize it. And so essentially what we find is that, yes, maybe they have a 401 K, maybe they have some benefits. Um, we call them financial puzzle pieces, but ultimately they haven’t been able to figure out how it all fits together to put together, uh, those puzzle pieces in one cohesive and clear picture. And so our job is to kind of do an evaluation on what they’ve done already, um, identify areas of opportunity and really put together that financial puzzle that they’ve been looking for.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

George Acheampong: Yeah. Uh, so I’ve been in the financial services industry for about 14 years. Um, the way I got into the line of work was, uh, actually graduated with a double major in marketing and economics. I only got the economics degree because I just wanted to understand how to how to develop my personal economy. Right. Not how to do it for other people. But when I graduated, uh, back in oh nine, that was, you know, right around the time when the recession was happening, uh, marketing was viewed as a luxury. So I was interning for Coca-Cola, and they couldn’t bring me on as a full time employee at that time. And so I said, well, I have this economics degree. I wonder if I can do something with that. Um, ultimately explore some opportunities. Um, and started working for a financial services company, and they asked me to do an exercise called project 200, where essentially they wanted me to write down a list of 200 names of people who I felt like were doing well and I would want to trade paychecks with. But the problem was, I didn’t have a list of 200 people.

George Acheampong: I don’t think I could name 20. And so then from from from that point on, I was curious, why is it that the people that come from the communities that I come from, right? Maybe it wasn’t people that came to mind to be able to serve and to be able to help, right? And so I knew that there was a financial literacy gap, and I knew that there was a representation gap because there at the time, I’m not sure the stat today, but I think less than 2% or 1% of all the advisors, um, were advisors of color. And so as a result, if someone doesn’t if you don’t see someone that looks like you in this space, you probably think that it’s not for you. And so because there was not representation, most, most people, uh, didn’t think that wealth management was for them. And so I wanted to go on a mission to dispel that myth. And then ultimately create a platform that could serve people who, um, had the need but just didn’t know that it was available for them.

Lee Kantor: So that was, uh, so you became, at that point, kind of an entrepreneur that says, I’m going to, you know, open up my own shop and I’m going to bring in my own people, and this is who we’re going to serve.

George Acheampong: Exactly. Yep.

Lee Kantor: Now, what was that transition like to go from kind of the steady paycheck, the, you know, hey, I’m doing this. Um, I know as a wealth advisor, you are kind of an entrepreneur because it’s kind of an eat what you kill world. But, you know, doing your own thing and being responsible for other people is kind of a little bit of a mindset shift.

George Acheampong: Yeah, it’s a good question. Well, I actually have a funny story. So when I started out in the business, um, I thought I was getting a job, right. And then I remember like three weeks or so went by and I was wondering, you know, what happened to my paycheck? Um, and to your point, it was an eat what you kill environment. I wasn’t I wasn’t on salary. I was 23 at the time, so I didn’t have the, I guess, the foresight to understand that it wasn’t a base salary. And so, um, from the very start of my career, even when I was underneath another umbrella, it was 100% eat what you killed. So the transition, um, wasn’t as hard. Um, now, granted, there were other things that I had to now be accountable for. Like, I had to be in control of more of the marketing. I wasn’t able to leverage the the household name of the company I was working with. I had to get my own office and things of that nature. So that transition in terms of just building out the infrastructure of the business versus just being the industry expert, there’s a little bit of a shift there. Um, but ultimately, um, it was kind of a little bit of a blissful ignorance. I didn’t know what I didn’t know I was young, I didn’t have a lot of obligations, didn’t have a child at the time. Um, and so I just kind of grinded it out, um, and worked really hard. And then ultimately, um, you know, fast forward, it worked out.

Lee Kantor: So now when you were starting out and you have the mission that seems clear and that seems like something that, you know, you can rally people around. When did you kind of financially when you put your financial hat on, say, okay, this is something I’m going to be able to pull this off. We I’m getting traction now. Did you have kind of a moment where you were like, okay, I think we got this now.

George Acheampong: Yeah, that’s a good question. So I would say around might have been might have been 2017, 2018. I had an inflection point, um, because I wanted to build a business that was accessible for what? At the time, I believed to be everybody, but I didn’t quite yet understand the economics of what that what that would mean for the business itself. And so, um, I try to have like a low cost subscription service for financial planning. And I told myself at the time I was like, I’m going to be the Netflix of personal finance. But what I didn’t realize is Netflix’s intellectual property, and they and they’re a venture backed company. I was providing services. And so at that point, I had to kind of reimagine the way in which I showed up for the marketplace, and I had to split, uh, financial education from financial services. And so once I did that and really got clear on who my ideal avatar was, I was able to still make good on my mission by educating and coaching people at scale, while also still building a business that was sustainable. And I would say probably around 2019 is when I really started to build traction and momentum, that I knew this would be something that would be sustainable long term.

Lee Kantor: So it seems like your background in marketing and kind of this wealth management angle or economics was the kind of the secret sauce that helps kind of elevate you from others in the space.

George Acheampong: That’s a very astute observation that almost nobody connects the dots on, because for me, it wasn’t. It wasn’t even originally, uh, I guess transparent for me either, because I was like, all right, I knew I had this marketing degree, but once I went into the financial services industry, I didn’t really think much about it. But it wasn’t until I had to start doing marketing and it became innate. I was like, oh, okay, well, this is because I have a background in it, and it ended up still being a useful degree. Um, but yeah, most people don’t make that observation. So yeah, that’s that’s 100% accurate. My marketing acumen played a huge role in my ability to grow and even think creatively about how I needed to position my business model. That set me apart from other advisors in the industry.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned earlier that a lot of your work is around education. Um, can you talk a little bit about how much misinformation is out there? And there is so much. I mean, one of my pet peeves in this space, uh, at least for a lot of young people I’m talking to, is they’re seeing all this kind of gambling and DraftKings and Polymarket, and they’re putting it in the pile of wealth management. And that’s really scary to me because I don’t see, you know, investing in the stock market the same as, you know, going to DraftKings and, you know, making a prop bets.

George Acheampong: Yeah, 100%. So, um, what I like, what I like to say is me and my company, we sit firmly in the middle of credibility and relatability because what the the challenge in the marketplace is you have people who are very credible, but it’s like watching paint dry when they talk about personal finance. And you have people that are relatable, but they don’t have the credentials, they don’t have the expertise, but they have a way of conveying the message that seems cool and innovative. And so people might gravitate towards that. But to your point, in many instances there can be a lot of misinformation there. So what I try to do is instead of calling out either side, I sit in the middle of being able to be relatable, but also having the credibility of a world class advisor and just try to drown out the noise and give people more context, because what I believe is that the missing bridge between between limiting beliefs. Right, um, of people who are trying to get into the space of understanding financial literacy, right. And the oversimplification of how it works is context, because you have financial creators that will say to your point, you can, uh, just do sports betting and make $50,000 a month.

George Acheampong: And it’s like, okay, sounds good. Um, and then you have, um, other people who, um, have limiting beliefs around what’s possible. But I think the, the bridge is context. If I can say, hey, look, yes, you can build a portfolio that pays you passively, but it’s not going to happen overnight. You’re going to have to, uh, do the boring, repetitive thing for years. You’re going to have to, uh, get skill set acquisition to create more margin between your income and your expenses so you can have a disposable income to invest. And yes, over time you can create that passive income. But the road to passive income isn’t passive. And so when people get the context, then they can say, okay, let me actually create a plan that makes sense. Create a plan that’s sustainable versus thinking I can, you know, just gamble and try to get a Hail Mary win and then maybe make some money off of a meme stock or, um, placing bets with DraftKings.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, it’s, um, one of the biggest gifts I guess my family gave to me when I was younger was explaining or for me to understand the power of compounding. And once I kind of understood that, that unlocked a different mindset on how I approach different things. And I just think that’s missing in a lot of younger people today.

George Acheampong: Yes, 100% 100. Like, everybody wants instant gratification. Um, and I think it’s just a derivative of like the easy access to dopamine by virtue of the way the world works with, you know, social media. Like, everything is just seemingly at your fingertips. Um, everybody seems to have it all figured out. Everybody seems to be living this grand lifestyle. And so people are unwilling to wait. Um, and so instead of taking advantage of the power of compounding, they’re looking for quick fixes in short term solutions that can get them to their perceived goal faster.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

George Acheampong: Um, I think just more people having awareness that there’s a platform that will meet you where you are and provide quality, uh, education to you. Um, again, like I said, we do free complimentary workshops all year long, mainly about, you know, 20% of the people that we reach most likely will be able to work with us in a 1 to 1 capacity. But ultimately, um, you know, the other 80%, we’re still providing high quality information. So just, you know, sharing the word that money and money is a platform that’s here to serve you, educate you, empower you on all things tax strategy, wealth building and personal finance.

Lee Kantor: And it doesn’t matter what stage you are in your kind of, uh, career or work life.

George Acheampong: Correct. Yeah. We can help people all across the country.

Lee Kantor: And, uh, the website socials. What’s the best way to connect to get a hold of you or somebody on the team or learn about the podcast?

George Acheampong: Sure. Um, uh, as far as our, our company, uh, social melanin money everywhere. So melanin money com is a website. Melanin money on social media, um, all platforms if you want to tap in with me personally. Um, George Jr, uh, my last name is a little bit unique, so hopefully you can put that in the show notes or something like that. But, um, um, if you search me, I’m probably the first one that’ll show up on social media. Um, and we’re happy to help.

Lee Kantor: Well, George, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work, and we appreciate you.

George Acheampong: Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Breaking Down Barriers: How Brij the Gap Consulting Transforms Employee Development

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Breaking Down Barriers: How Brij the Gap Consulting Transforms Employee Development
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee interviews Devika Brij, CEO and co-founder of Brij the Gap Consulting. Devika discusses her transition from tech roles at Google and LinkedIn to founding her firm, which partners with global companies to improve leadership and employee development. She shares insights on overcoming career growth challenges, the importance of supportive leadership, and how her company helps organizations retain and empower talent. Devika also highlights her book, Thrive in Color, and invites listeners to connect for knowledge sharing and collaboration.

Devika Brij Maurice is the founder and CEO of Brij the Gap Consulting and the author of Thrive in Color. Her journey is a powerful testimony of God’s grace, resilience, and the transformative power of faith, demonstrating how life’s deepest challenges can be turned into purpose driven triumphs.

Born into a single parent household, she was shaped by her mother’s unwavering strength as an immigrant in North America. Her mother juggled multiple jobs to provide for her daughters, modeling sacrifice, perseverance, and faith. Watching her mother navigate constant pressure instilled in Devika a strong drive to succeed, while also revealing the quiet cost of living in survival mode, including diminished self advocacy and settling for less than one’s true worth.

She went on to excel at world renowned organizations such as Google and LinkedIn, rising into leadership roles and earning recognition as a high performing professional. However, her corporate journey was not without hardship. Despite her results, she experienced an unjust termination rooted in bias and persistent micromanagement. The loss left her questioning her value and direction, marking one of the most painful chapters of her career.

In that season of rejection, she leaned fully into her faith. Rather than allowing disappointment to define her, she trusted God to redeem the experience and redirect her path. What felt like an ending became the foundation for a greater calling.

She founded Brij the Gap Consulting, a global talent and leadership development firm that partners with brands including Visa, Meta, Nike, Reddit, and Lionsgate. Through customized training and strategic guidance, she equips individuals and organizations to build confidence, develop leaders, and create values driven workplaces.

Today, as a sought after speaker and trusted advisor, she empowers others to transform setbacks into growth, steward their gifts with excellence, and pursue purpose with faith.

Connect with Devika on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Challenges employees face in career growth and the shortcomings of existing development programs.
  • The importance of customized and actionable workshops for employee and leadership development.
  • The role of self-advocacy skills in helping employees articulate their value and seek growth opportunities.
  • The disconnect between upper management’s growth values and frontline managers’ talent hoarding.
  • The significance of fostering a culture of growth and accountability in organizations.
  • The impact of empathetic leadership during difficult times, such as layoffs.
  • The relationship between employee development investment and organizational retention and innovation.
  • Strategies for bridging the gap between employee potential and opportunity in the workplace.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is gonna be a good one. Today on the show we have CEO and co-founder of Brij the Gap Consulting, Devika Brij. Welcome.

Devika Brij: Hi, Lee. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Bridge the Gap. How are you serving folks?

Devika Brij: Brij the gap is a talent and leadership development firm. We partner with global organizations like Samsung, Nike, Meta to equip professionals with the tools to increase performance, strengthen leadership capability, and drive lasting growth.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Devika Brij: Well, it was not part of the plan, I’ll tell you that. No, Lee, You know, I was in tech for most of my career. I spent a lot of my time at Google and LinkedIn and had a great career trajectory there. But I noticed that there was quite a gap in terms of, you know, leadership development, employee development and and actually getting employees to, you know, feel, feel productive in the workforce and feel like they had a shot at the growth opportunities that they desired. And so, you know, just feeling like a lot of that, you know, the resources around that. The programing was just very fluffy and motivational. And so I left corporate, I started Bridge the Gap to create, you know, highly impactful but really tangible programs and workshops that professionals and leaders could, you know, obviously understand the context, but also have the tools and the strategies to apply immediately for career growth.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working in the environments you were, um, those organizations have the ability to kind of hire the best of the best of the best, that there’s a lot of people seeking roles there and a lot of the, you know, the most talented arrive on the steps there. Is your service primarily geared to that kind of avatar of a, of a client, where they’re the best of the best, and they’re just trying to squeeze out the most out of that group. Or, or does it kind of go down the ladder a little bit to regular folks that are, you know, just out there grinding every day?

Devika Brij: Yeah. Well, I think we’re all out here grinding every day.

Lee Kantor: Right. But there are some people aren’t getting invited to Google, and they’re not going through the interview process and getting through all of those kind of hurdles to get and not only to be considered, but to be hired at Google. That’s a different type of person than might be, you know, in the majority of the places and the majority of the organizations in the country.

Devika Brij: Yeah. So, yeah, so typically, you know, my company partners with the organization who are looking to develop and empower their current employee base. So a lot of what bridged the gap does is kind of like the, you know, B2B and partnering with organizations. And, you know, then, yes, of course, serving the employee base and the leadership teams, that’s where Bridge the Gap comes in. But, you know, there are other ways that I work with professionals who might want to enter those environments or maybe don’t want to enter those environments, but are still thinking about career development and advancement. And so I actually released, um, my first book called Thrive in Color, um, which is filled with the same tools and strategies I would share with corporate partners. But just making that education and coaching more accessible to the wider public.

Lee Kantor: So right now, your clients are those kind of, uh, larger enterprise organizations.

Devika Brij: Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s like the meat and bones of Bridge the Gap, but I am finding ways to kind of, you know, give more resources to the general public, you know, through whether it’s through social, whether it’s through books and, you know, speaking and things of that nature.

Lee Kantor: So now how do you go about advising or consulting with these organizations? So what’s kind of the pain point they’re having where they’re like, I better call the brij the gap folks.

Devika Brij: Well, a lot of it is, you know, some of these I typically partner with learning and development or, you know, corporate engagement, employee engagement, like, these are the decision makers that I’m partnering with. And a lot of the gaps that they’re having is one, how do we actually provide career development and leadership development, education and support, um, to folks that we consider high potential or folks that we want to retain as, you know, as, as leadership potential at the company for some of these organizations, you know, when they’re creating career development or leadership development, education content and training, if you really think about it, it’s kind of biased, right? It is really, um, as they’re building it, they of course know that they’re trying to develop their employees. But if you think about it, in the employee side of things, they desire a different perspective. They’re desiring, um, facilitation and leadership from someone who isn’t tied to the company, who wants to see them succeed, but can take a very unbiased approach to, to helping them. And so a lot of these companies acknowledge that. And that’s where I come in, kind of marrying my tool, strategies, programs and everything I’ve built. But combining it with their corporate culture and their retention goals and their employee development goals.

Devika Brij: So a lot of what I do is, you know, connecting with my partners and really understanding why they’re trying to drive employee growth or leadership development. Are there gaps, are there challenges that they’ve identified? Has there been feedback from employees that there isn’t a general satisfaction with their career development at that company, and really just combining forces to offer programing, workshops, coaching all of the good stuff to make sure that their employees are doing well at the company, because that drives productivity and it drives retention over time. So there’s that piece. Um, sometimes the teams internally just don’t have the capacity. Uh, maybe their teams are very slim. So they’re looking for kind of external partners to come in and help build what can be sustainable for their employee and leadership development growth at their organizations. Um, and so that’s why they’re generally calling on Bridge the Gap to partner with them. And the way that I, you know, explain to them is I’m not here to substitute. I’m more of like an extension of them. Um, but also just kind of meeting in the common values and the mission that we want their professionals or their employees, rather, to succeed and to win within their companies. So the company as a whole can win.

Lee Kantor: So what could that enterprise company that you left have done to keep you there?

Devika Brij: Sorry. Can you repeat your question, Lee?

Lee Kantor: What? What could that enterprise company that you left have done to have kept you there?

Devika Brij: Well, I think, you know, they’re one of the things is a lot of the times there is not opportunity for growth, especially if you want to grow within the current team that you’re in. And I wish there was more development around, hey, we value you here. We want to see you, you know, grow within our team. But we also recognize that you’re ready for development, you’re ready for advancement. And if it’s not this team, how can we explore other options with other organizations or other teams? How can we empower you? So when we do have opportunities, you’re in a good position in terms of skills and strengths and leadership qualities so you can succeed. That conversation doesn’t exist, right? So a lot of corporations, when they know they don’t have headcount, they try their best to just keep people in position. And we have to recognize that, you know, for folks that are ready to move on in their careers, that are ready for growth, that are ready for advancement, that’s an unfair ask. And so when there’s not, you know, room to move. What then happens? That individual has to look externally. And now that that company has lost top talent.

Devika Brij: So really the conversations I’m having, which was a gap for me in corporate America, is okay. So we know you can’t control that. There’s, you know, lack of headcount or lack of mobility. But how do you actually practice self-advocacy? How do you empower leaders to know your overall, you know, value that you’re driving your contributions, your achievements? How do you make sure you’re partnering with the right mentors and sponsors? How are you negotiating correctly to make sure that you are positioning yourself for career growth? That might not be in the kind of lateral move or upward trajectory that they’re thinking. Um, so just really helping them think outside of the box of, hey, yeah, there’s not headcount here, but there are other opportunities that I can explore and being able to facilitate that for themselves well, while also empowering the company to retain top talent by giving them opportunities, you know, that might be outside of the box versus kind of just saying, hey, sorry we can’t help you out, and then letting them leave the organization because, you know, turnover is expensive and finding good talent is difficult.

Lee Kantor: Do you find that sometimes there’s a disconnect, maybe from upper management, where they would have those kind of, uh, values and they would believe in what you’re saying, but then you trickle it down maybe to a lower level where that manager might be, have a more scarcity mindset and doesn’t want to give up. The good person is hanging on to them for their own kind of, um, internal reasons, rather than what’s the best for the employee or even what’s best for the company.

Devika Brij: I think that’s the biggest leadership challenge there is. So as you know, the way that it needs to work in my corporate advising is that growth opportunities and moving people forward needs to be built into the culture and the values of that company. So, for example, I’ll give you with LinkedIn, you know, I worked there for quite some time. I think that the thing that I admired most about them was that they knew that you were going to move on to another role, you’re going to move on to something outside of the company at some point, and they have positioned it in terms of their culture and values that you are there to, of course, deliver, perform, but they want you to be empowered to position yourself and learn. Um, you know, uh, as you’re growing so that when you move on to what, you know, your next play in your career, that you are equipped. And so that’s baked into the cultures and values. It’s the expectation that leaders have that, hey, we should be, you know, growing our employees. Maybe we don’t have the space for promotions or upward growth opportunities, but what are, you know, other ways that we can help them grow? What are other ways that they can feel fulfilled at work? Um, so when that’s baked into not only the corporate culture and values, but also there’s leadership training around that, then we start to see kind of, you know, a more collaborative and mutually beneficial space versus leaders who are saying, hey, you know, we selfishly want to keep you in seat because, you know, you can do that as much as you want. But when that when that talent is being recruited to a different company and they’re going to be making more money and they have a higher seniority, or they’re going to be challenged in a new way, there’s nothing that you can do to keep that person in seat. So wouldn’t you rather grow that person and see them move on? Yeah, you might lose them as a team member, but the company is still retaining that person as talent.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re explaining that to the leader, Do you have kind of some stories you can share that demonstrate how that can really work and that doesn’t? It isn’t some pie in the sky kind of theory that you have some kind of, uh, evidence based, uh, results that can back that up.

Devika Brij: Well, you know, I think about one of my previous roles where, you know, I was working in Toronto at the time, and, you know, I think it’s changed quite a bit. But at that period in, in just having kind of working in satellite offices in Canada versus in the Bay area where this company was headquartered, and there was more opportunity opportunities in the Toronto office were very slim. So, you know, you could be absolutely crushing it, doing a great job. You know, you’re valued. But when I was ready to move on, um, you know, there was nowhere for me to go. And so then it became a conversation of, hey, do I wait for this opportunity or do I leave this company? And when I started to have authentic conversations with my leader, um, who I knew, of course, would want to keep me on their team because, you know, she she needed my skills and my expertise. Her focus became. How do I keep Devika at this company so she can grow? Um, and so she started to facilitate introductions to other departments, um, that were, um, you know, based. Yes, in Toronto, but also in the US where, you know, there was remote work opportunities or there was opportunity to kind of travel back and forth between both countries and service clients, um, across North America. She positioned me with other leaders that would consider me for open headcount on their teams. Right. And the results of that was that I ended up spending many years at that company and growing and working across different teams and organizations and adding value. Now, how have she said Devika? There’s nothing I can do. Like, sorry. Um, I would have definitely moved on to a different company. And, you know, that would have been costly for that company that I was employed with. But also, you know, having to train and develop other individuals and the ramp time. Um, it, you know, that was a challenge that they didn’t have to really experience because leadership was so invested in my growth versus their comfort.

Lee Kantor: Now, was that a manager you have is she the exception or is she the norm that you see out in the corporate world?

Devika Brij: You know, the more that I have now worked with, uh, enterprise companies globally, I would say it’s a challenge. So again, the key here is that how you expect your leaders to show up needs to be baked in the culture and values of the company, and they need to actually be measured towards that in their own performance evaluations. So, you know, for example, with the with the story I just shared. If that leader was measured on. Hey, how have you helped, uh, an employee with a growth opportunity? That is something that that leader could go back and say, hey, you know, Devika was, you know, likely going to move externally for another opportunity. And I actually aligned her with one that helped us retain her as as talent here at this company. If that leader is now measured on that, and yes, it aligns to the corporate culture and values, that’s easier to reinforce. Now, there are certain companies I’ve worked with that have, you know, they don’t have a focus on career development. They don’t have a focus on leadership development. You know, they just kind of see it as our people are here and they’re going to do their job, and if they don’t like it, they can leave. But I can tell you that those are the companies that often get caught in cycles of, um, you know, high turnover, um, which slows down, you know, uh, innovation, it slows down product development, it slows down, you know, so many ways that the company could actually move forward if they actually, um, got behind their, their employees and their leaders. Um, so I see the stark difference. Um, it’s just a matter of them buying into the fact that your employees make or break your company. And I think, um, as soon as people start to understand that we need to empower leaders to be more effective and to be more, you know, have a have a mindset of growth and development and not stifle that. That’s the companies that tend to have more consistency, innovation and growth.

Lee Kantor: And from the leader, your former managers point of view, in some ways it was very selfless and generous. Um, because you no longer were working with her and she valued you or you weren’t working with her exclusively. Um, but she was helping you, like, she. She wanted to make sure that you were taken care of. So there was a high empathy level from her standpoint to help you. Um, which I think is unusual. And if companies could bottle that quality or, you know, somehow measure that quality, they’d be in a lot better shape when it came to employee retention.

Devika Brij: Absolutely. I think the challenge here is getting people to buy into that. Um, and, you know, there’s been a lot of shifts like, uh, you know, we’re seeing layoffs happen even with that whole experience. Right? Are you honoring the people being laid off? Are you giving them, um, empathy? Are you giving them resources so they can figure out what is next? Um, even that whole experience that, you know, the world is going through right now. I’m seeing how certain companies are moving versus others that lack empathy, but it really does play a role in their overall success, because I don’t think companies realize that their brand matters, right? Their reputation matters and how they’re treating employees and leaders. And, you know, taking a development first approach really does impact their success overall.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, it’s getting so transactional now. And it’s getting um, it’s going to, you know, people talk, you know it’s just and they.

Devika Brij: Right.

Lee Kantor: Right. I mean these were things that were, you know, kind of whispered back in the day that are now, you know, on the internet for everybody to see.

Devika Brij: Yeah, absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Um, so what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Devika Brij: What do I need more of? Well, you know, I’m always looking to connect with, uh, decision makers who are focused on leadership development, employee development. Um, and really, the overall, you know, growth of their employees across organizations. So, um, as I mentioned, you know, I’ve worked globally across, uh, a lot of really great brands, um, you know, Google and Visa and Reddit, um, just a bunch. And so if you are, um, a decision maker or somebody interested in having a conversation, I love connecting. You know, obviously partnerships are great, but I also just love knowledge sharing and helping people along. So, um, you know, just getting to connect with with new faces and folks that are interested and equally passionate about my line of work and bringing that value to your organizations.

Lee Kantor: And if, um, somebody wants to connect with you, learn more about the book, Thrive in Color, or, um, get on your calendar to discuss opportunities. Is there a website? Is there a best way to connect?

Devika Brij: Absolutely. So it’s just brij the gap consulting bridge is b r i j like my last name. And, uh, you can reach out to me through the website. Um, the book is also linked there. You can find it, um, through physical book, audio book, wherever you purchase and listen. And, uh, I will say Amazon, uh, sent me a note saying that they, uh, overstocked my book so you can actually get it for quite a good deal right now. So if you’re looking to pick it up right now is the time. But yeah, feel free to connect with me through my website, uh, through the information, my contact information in the book, which is listed in there as well. Um, and also on social. So I’m at Devika Bridge, Maurice Morey ce on all social.

Lee Kantor: Well, Devika, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Devika Brij: Thanks for having me, Lee.

Lee Kantor: All right, this Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

The Art of Buying Loans: Transforming Mortgages into Profitable Investments

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
The Art of Buying Loans: Transforming Mortgages into Profitable Investments
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Nathan Turner, President of Earnest Investing. Nathan explains his fund’s approach to investing in residential real estate mortgages across the U.S., detailing how he acquires loans from private lenders and manages borrower payments. He shares insights on the benefits of note investing, the importance of networking in the industry, and educational opportunities like the Diversified Mortgage Expo. The episode provides an accessible introduction to note investing as an alternative real estate strategy, highlighting how accredited investors can participate and learn more.

Nathan Turner is a leading voice in mortgage note investing, with more than 15 years of hands-on experience buying, managing, and optimizing large portfolios of performing real estate notes.

As founder of Earnest Investing, he works with accredited investors seeking predictable, secured, passive income backed by real property. He is known throughout the note-investing industry as “The Canadian Note Guy” and is the organizer of the annual Diversified Mortgage Expo in Nashville.

His signature “Be the Bank” philosophy empowers investors to shift from volatile, effort-heavy strategies to a more stable, secured approach rooted in first-position liens. With a fund that consistently pays an 8% annual return, he combines simplicity, transparency, and deep expertise.

Connect with Nathan on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Earnest Investing and its business model.
  • Explanation of note investing in residential real estate mortgages.
  • Comparison of residential real estate notes versus commercial real estate.
  • Process of purchasing loans from private lenders and collecting payments.
  • Importance of vetting loans and assessing borrower reliability.
  • Networking within the lending community for loan acquisition.
  • Educational resources available for those interested in note investing.
  • The role of the Diversified Mortgage Expo in promoting note investing.
  • Insights on how to get started in note investing for beginners.
  • Discussion on the target audience for the investment fund, specifically accredited investors.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the president of Earnest Investing, Nathan Turner. Welcome.

Nathan Turner: Hey, thank you so much. So glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about earnest investing. How are you serving folks?

Nathan Turner: Earnest investing is an accredited investor fund where people put money into the fund, and I go and buy residential real estate mortgages all over the country.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Nathan Turner: You know, like so many things, I kind of fell into it by accident, which was a happy accident. So I’m glad to be where I am today. I just was introduced to it by, uh, by, you know, some friends, colleagues and started doing some seller finance where we had some properties that I was in charge of and we were selling them on terms. So meaning I would have somebody come in and say, okay, I have, you know, whatever it was a couple thousand dollars for a down payment. We would set them up with monthly payments with principal and interest rather than a rental, so that they’re the ones living in the house. And they are the homeowners. They’re the ones who are taking care of the property. And I’m just collecting. So in essence, I was kind of becoming a bank. I didn’t even realize that’s what it was doing at first, but but essentially that’s what we started doing. And the more I learned about it, the more people I met all those different things, the more I realized this is actually a fairly sizable industry. And there’s a lot of people doing this, even though almost nobody’s heard of it.

Lee Kantor: So what was the attraction of residential real estate over commercial real estate?

Nathan Turner: I think especially initially, the size just, you know, I only had so much capital available, and so that’s what initially attracted me to it. And then it just kind of fell in love with the asset class. I really I really liked that. Everybody needs a home. Everyone needs a place to live. And so that’s, uh, it’s become my niche just providing, uh, you know, the opportunity for people to get into these homes where maybe they wouldn’t otherwise have the opportunity.

Lee Kantor: So how does it work? Like, say, I would like to buy a home. Why do I pick you and your firm rather than, like you said, the bank or more traditional bank.

Nathan Turner: Well, this is where it gets really interesting because technically I don’t actually loan out the money. I let somebody else do that. So there’s private lenders all over the country, and there’s tons of them out there that do a really great job at what they do. I actually come in after the fact, so I’m not actually dealing with the person living in the house. I am dealing with the loan holder, whoever created that loan. And I approached them and say, well, you’ve created this loan for X amount of dollars x percent interest rate over so many months. If you’re interested in getting cashed out, I’m your guy, so I will buy that typically at some kind of a discount and I take over the receiving the payments. So instead of the borrower, the person living in the home, instead of them paying, you know, a company ABC or individual ABC. Now they’re paying me. So I just I’m I’m the vulture. I come in after the fact.

Lee Kantor: But is it invisible to them? Like, do they just say they just get a notice that now you write the check to this company instead of that company?

Nathan Turner: That’s exactly it. There’s very little that changes for the borrower. They just instead of sending a check here now they send it to me.

Lee Kantor: So now when you’re doing this kind of work, how do you know. Like how are you vetting that homeowner to make sure that they’re going to be able to make all the payments? Or are you just relying on the person who made the initial loan to do that kind of vetting?

Nathan Turner: There’s a couple of things I do look at whatever the the lender set up. Uh, hopefully they’ve gone and done it correctly, and they’ve gone through a mortgage loan originator and involved with that. There’s all kinds of paperwork and checks and balances that are tied into that. To me, that’s a very important part. First of all, that’s the legal way to do it. So that’s an important piece. Uh, but it definitely gives me peace of mind because of the, uh, what’s built in already to check that out. Secondly, I’m going to look at history. So if they typically I’m going to want at least a few months worth of regular payment history. And it’s not even necessarily did they pay that month, but what day did they pay if their due date is the first? Are they paying on the 10th or 12th, or are they paying, you know, the 31st of the month before? Just to kind of get a sense of who they are. What kind of habits have they established? Uh, that plays into it a lot as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, are you currently kind of teaching other people how to do the same thing, or are you just looking for more, um, companies that have loans that they’re looking to sell. Like, what’s your, um, kind of. What’s your end game in all this?

Nathan Turner: Yeah, that’s a great question. So I have a, I guess a couple of end games. My first thing, I guess, is I’m always looking for more investors, people that are going to put money into the fund so I can go out and buy more of these loans. I don’t actually teach it. However, I’ve got some really great colleagues that are interested in doing that, which I would highly recommend. Uh, and I don’t get paid for saying that, but it’s because it’s a finance game. It’s not real estate. We have a lot of people, including myself, where they get into this note investing thing and they have some kind of real estate background, which is great. And that was me too. But just because you’ve got real estate background does not mean that you understand the finance part of it and how the lending, uh, side of that works. There’s different kinds of rules. There’s different kinds of even licensing in certain states and things that you need to be aware of. So it’s important to get some education. Now, that being said, I don’t teach it, but I do host an annual conference. And the next ones coming up, actually in May in Nashville, where, um, anybody who’s either in the business or interested in learning more about it, you come together with everybody who’s already in the business and we just get together. My whole goal for that conference is just to establish a place where people can get to know each other, and as they get to know each other, they can get to like each other. And as they get to like each other, they can get to trust each other and they can start doing some deals together.

Lee Kantor: Now, if somebody wants to get involved with this for the first time, uh, does it just like, what do you need to do in order to kind of, uh, explore this or these opportunities? Like, it’s not you’re not, um, like, this isn’t flipping houses. This is kind of you’re playing one level higher than that in a way. Can you explain, like, what it takes for somebody who has some money that likes real estate and that feels that there’s opportunities there that maybe they could be leveraging in a different way than they’re currently leveraging it.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. For sure. So, uh, like I say, I came from a real estate background as well. So I’d done some flipping houses. I’d been a landlord for a little bit. What I discovered with being a landlord is it’s way more work than anybody talks about. And so I didn’t really love it. And that’s what I liked about this note investing is it’s the same kind of monthly income that I was getting with the rentals, but I don’t own the house, which means I don’t have to take care of the house. I don’t have to fix the roof. I’m not dealing with property taxes. All of that goes back to the borrower. And so that became very attractive to me. So if you’re just getting started and it sounds great and interesting, um, I would say go to my website, Ernest Investing.com, there’s some more information there. And if you’re looking for someone to teach you, like I say, I’m going to point you in a different direction. Uh, but some people, colleagues, friends that I’ve known for years, that would be great at doing that for you.

Lee Kantor: But if I was going to try to do this myself, how do I Do I look for somebody that is a small lender that maybe only has a few properties? Or do I find places that are doing this already and are just looking for ways to, you know, unload some properties, like what is the best, you know, kind of early fit for exploring this.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. And that’s the million dollar question is where do you find these things. And that’s one of the biggest challenges in this business is identifying where these loans are and then how to evaluate them and make sure that it’s going to be a good deal. It’s going to be something that’s going to produce long term. And of course, it’s never a perfect, uh, kind of evaluation, but we all do our best. Um, it’s really all about relationships. There are two, maybe three different websites where you can go and browse loans that are for sale. Um, but really and truly, the way this business is done is just getting to know people who are in the business and talking and networking and passing lists around and things like that. Oh, that’s really how the business is done.

Lee Kantor: So is this one of those things where you just wherever you are locally in the country, you just start kind of getting involved with the lending community and see who the players are and who, who, who is doing a lot of loans, who’s not doing a lot of loans, who maybe wants to stop doing loans. Like, is that is it just kind of old fashioned networking, you know, getting to know more people?

Nathan Turner: Yeah, that’s a really good way to do it. Um, if you want to expand your network, you start going online. There’s different Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups and things like that that you can get involved with just to, at the very least, dip your toe in and start meeting some people and having some conversations. Um, to give you an example, though, I actually live up in Canada and everything I do is in the US, so you don’t have to invest in your local market. Um, I’ve got loans spread out all over the country, and so it really doesn’t make that much of a difference where you’re located versus where the loans are.

Lee Kantor: So you just have to find the individuals who have the loans and then just start building relationships with those people.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. That’s right. And, uh, ideally my my best case scenario is I meet up with people who are creating these loans on a regular basis. So not necessarily just a one off where, you know, a mom and pop, they own a second property and then they, they sell it on terms and create this note. Those exist as well. And those are actually harder to find. Uh, so ideally you’re you’re trying to network with those who are doing this, at least, you know, semi-regularly where they’re creating a few of these, you know, a month or a year or something like that, where you can keep tapping into that same, same vein.

Lee Kantor: And then that way it’s a win win for both of you. You get to take over the loan, they get to exit the loan. They get something, you get something and you know, and the band plays on.

Nathan Turner: That’s exactly it. They get cashed out. They can go back and do it again and then come back and say, hey, are you interested in buying this one? It’s basically the same thing we did last time. Great. And we can just keep turning them over and over.

Lee Kantor: Now, what was kind of that first moment for you where you were like, hey, I think this is going to work out. Like, what was that aha moment early on when you were like, I think I’m on to something here.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. So when I first got started, it was 2008, 2009. Uh, the first.

Lee Kantor: So that’s right in the in a bad time for real estate. Yeah.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. And so that when I first heard about this, I thought, man, that sounds crazy. Um, especially because what was really popular, the time was what we call nonperforming loans. So loans where people were not making any payments. And I thought, why would you do that? That sounds nuts. So I had talked to some friends and kind of had been mulling it over, and then a friend of mine approached me and said, well, I have a package of three loans, all in Columbus, Ohio, on three different properties, three different borrowers, all that. And at the time, pricing was crazy, crazy good. So I bought the whole package for a total of $10,000. And I thought, this is worth a $10,000 experiment. So let’s see. And, uh, it worked the way that I hoped it would. At the time, I was very much centered on the real estate. So for the first two properties, I located the homeowner and just said to them, hey, I now own your loan. Um, I’m not here to collect any money. If you just deed the property over to me, then I will wipe out the balance of the loan. And two for two. They said absolutely, 100%. Let’s do this. And the third one? It was a house that wasn’t too far from Ohio State University, and it was a larger house.

Nathan Turner: And so the idea was I was going to turn it into student housing. Um, the challenge was that the house had had a fire, and so nobody had done anything with it for a while. The owner lived out in Arizona. I contacted him, he just didn’t really respond. And so, okay, what do we do? In the process? We found out that this property had a fairly sizable property tax bill, something like $12,000, like it was fairly large and I had already made my money back on the other two and then some. So to me, the aha moment was I’m not actually directly responsible for these taxes. I’ve already made my money over here on these other two deals. Uh, and so I can just let this go. And so that was, that was huge. Just to know that although those property taxes affected me, I wasn’t directly responsible for them. And I thought, man, that’s really cool. And so that was kind of what led me into thinking maybe there’s something to this, maybe there’s something that can, you know, work long term. And that’s kind of where I went from there. So.

Lee Kantor: Um, what could we be doing for you? What do you need more of? Are you just trying to get more people in America to go to this event of yours later this year? Is that kind of would that be a big win for you?

Nathan Turner: That would be a big win because, um, if you’re even if you’re doing any kind of real estate investing that you should at least be aware of this and have it as a tool in your toolbox. You don’t have to go out and start buying loans or whatever the way that I do, but you should at least be aware that it’s out there. Uh, and so when you’re doing some kind of they call it creative finance these days, a lot of the time you have some idea of if I’m going to create this loan, uh, there’s a chance that I’m going to want to sell this somewhere down the down the line. So if that’s the case, I know that this guy Nathan would like it structured a certain way so I can learn about that now so that when that deal comes up, I can structure it properly so that I can hang on to it if I want. But then I’ve also created a very attractive note for somebody else to purchase in the future.

Lee Kantor: And for you, the people that you’re working with, are they primarily accredited investors? Is that the level that you’re dealing with?

Nathan Turner: Yeah. My fund. It’s, uh, it’s a regulation D 506 C uh, that all the letters and numbers in there, but it’s, uh, limited to accredited investors. So that’s where I’m at with that.

Lee Kantor: And then the event that we’re talking about in Nashville is called the Diversified Mortgage Expo.

Nathan Turner: That’s right. Coming up May 1st and second.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Uh, Nathan, congratulations on all the success. You’re doing amazing work, and we appreciate you.

Nathan Turner: Hey, thank you so much for having me on.

Lee Kantor: And then the website, if people want to learn more about earnest.

Nathan Turner: Yeah. It’s earnest. Investing.com. That’s. Uh, and there’s more information about what I’m doing with the fund, about notes in general. And there’s a link over to the Diversified Mortgage Expo website as well.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. All right. This is Lee Kantor. We will talk to you next time on High Velocity Radio.

Discovering Your Career Ownership Potential: Insights from a Career Coach

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High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Discovering Your Career Ownership Potential: Insights from a Career Coach
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Kim Boike, a career ownership coach with The Entrepreneur’s Source. Kim shares her journey from teaching to coaching, and explains how she helps clients—especially those in career transition—explore new professional paths, including entrepreneurship and franchising. She discusses her holistic, supportive approach, the value of networking, and her focus on helping veterans and others discover fulfilling, flexible careers. Kim’s story and insights offer encouragement and practical advice for anyone navigating job changes or considering business ownership. Listeners can connect with Kim for further resources and coaching support.

Kim Boike was born and raised in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. Six years ago, her husband’s career brought their family to Arizona. Her professional background is in elementary education, where she spent time as a classroom teacher and later as a Reading Specialist. After relocating to Arizona, she continued teaching for a few years before deciding to pursue a new professional direction.

During that transition, she and her husband were introduced to a coach with The Entrepreneur’s Source and chose to go through the exploration process themselves. Through thoughtful discussion, education, and clarity around her goals, needs, and expectations, she discovered that franchising was the right path for her. She has now been a coach for two and a half years and truly enjoys the work she does.

She and her husband have three adult sons, ages 25, 22, and 20. Their oldest is a plumber, their middle son is a barber, and their youngest is currently in college studying data analytics.

She is passionate about working with people and helping them see that there are opportunities beyond what they may currently know. She firmly believes that knowledge is power and that education equips individuals to make informed, confident decisions, no matter which path they ultimately choose.

Connect with Kim on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Career transitions and their significance in professional development.
  • The role of a career ownership coach in guiding individuals through career changes.
  • Strategies for individuals facing job loss or seeking new income streams.
  • The importance of aligning personal and professional goals during career transitions.
  • Various career options available, including franchising, independent business ownership, and investments.
  • The coaching process and ongoing support provided to clients.
  • The significance of education and transparency in the coaching relationship.
  • Networking strategies and community engagement for business visibility.
  • Challenges faced by veterans and military spouses in transitioning to civilian careers.
  • Personal growth and resilience in adapting to new professional roles.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have career ownership coach with The Entrepreneur’s Source. Kim, welcome.

Kim Boike: Thank you Lee. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. I have never heard of someone that is a career ownership coach. Tell me about it.

Kim Boike: Yes, yes. So what we do is we work with people that are in a transition. Maybe they’ve been laid off. Maybe they want to keep their jobs but have a multiple stream of income or diversify their portfolios, and they don’t really know exactly what step to take. And what we do is we work with what diving deep into? What are their goals, needs and expectations? You know, we want to talk to them holistically about it. You know, what are your professional goals as well as your personal goals? We think that so many people in the past have negated personal or didn’t look at them together. So we want to make sure that we’re looking at both areas and seeing what those goals are. And then what we do is we look at the different paths, whether what paths you can take to reach those goals and expectations. You know, is it looking at, you know, staying in the same industry? Is it looking at maybe more investment in stocks or real estate, or is it even learning about business ownership, whether you start your own business or looking into franchising? And the space that I’m affiliated with are the franchises. And it’s not about pushing people down that path, but it’s about giving people a safe space to learn about the franchising and to see if it’s a path for them or not. But we just want people to be open to a lot of what other possibilities are out there other than the traditional corporate or W-2 jobs.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your background? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Kim Boike: Yeah, no, I was an elementary school teacher for 27 years. I worked in elementary schools, was in the classroom for about nine, and the rest of the time I was a reading specialist, so worked with the kids at risk and reading, uh, worked with community administration, working with closely with the teachers, uh, giving education when we could and when we moved out here. We’re originally from Detroit, and we moved out to Arizona six years ago because my husband’s company moved us out here. So out here, I just it wasn’t making sense anymore. I wasn’t working for the same pension. I took a huge pay cut. And so I just thought, you know, if I’m ever going to do anything different, now is the time to do it. So my husband and I, we were contacted by a coach just like myself, and we actually went through the exact same process that I take my clients through. And I learned about, you know, what my goals and expectations were. You know, we take a deeper dive. So I really had to really think about it and not just think about it on the surface level. Um, and what I really wanted, I really wanted a flexible schedule, you know, being from Detroit, where it’s cold in the winter, we have a lot of company that comes out here, you know, January through April.

Kim Boike: Uh, so I wanted to be able to have a flexible schedule and be able to spend time with family and friends. Also, if my, uh, parents ever needed my help, my sister, our family back home, uh, we wanted to or I wanted to be able to have that flexibility to go back and help them. And then another one was, if my husband’s job moved us again, I didn’t want to have to quit what I was doing to start over. So Looking at franchising and realizing that it had a, you know, systems and processes, processes that are in place, um, really gave me what I was looking for. Um, and so I decided myself to be a franchisee, owner of the Entrepreneur Source. Um, and there are many brands that we introduce people to, not just the entrepreneur source, but that’s just the one that I chose, um, with my coach, because that’s the one that met my goals and expectations the best.

Lee Kantor: So when you began this coaching relationship with your coach, was it something that is supposed to just kind of triage your situation that you’re in initially, or does the coach kind of stick with you just to make sure everything’s going well and to continue coaching you for other opportunities? Or is it something that you were like, I don’t know what to do next, and then they help you figure out what to do next? And then that’s kind of the end of the coaching relationship.

Kim Boike: Yeah. No, no, we, uh, we definitely. What we always want to do is we want to help our, uh, clients in any way that we can. You know, franchising isn’t the only pathway, right? That’s just the ones that I am set up for education. Uh, to help specifically with. If you decide to go down the franchising path and learn about it, then I do guide you through that experience. I do not leave you. I guide you all the way up until you sign. And even after, um, as investing and signing with a franchise, if you choose to go down that path, if you realize that franchising is not for you, that’s okay. You know it’s not for everybody. But at least you had taken that, um, time to learn about it and educate yourself about it. The one thing, uh, that we have after that, then, is like, if you choose to go back into the corporate and that’s where you feel that your calling is still, then we do have affiliates that we can set you up with, and they will help you look for a job. You know, they are a paid service where I am not a paid service. Um, my, uh, coaching and guidance is free of charge. Um, I get paid by a third party if they do invest. But we have enough people that go down that path that we’re not salesy, we’re not pushy, we’re not putting pressure onto people. We’re more about the education, which is another reason why I fell in love and chose this because it, you know, matched up with my background, with education. Um, if you choose to go into independent business, uh, instead of franchising, then we have an organization that we can set you up with that gives free mentoring and, uh, very inexpensive webinars and, um, seminars that they’ll give in person and, and online to help people start with, uh, their own business.

Lee Kantor: So when you meet somebody that’s kind of in this transitional, um, kind of place, then you can help educate them about all the variety of possibilities, and then you can point them in the right direction, no matter which kind of path they choose.

Kim Boike: Yes, we we first of all, like I said, we talk about their goals and expectations. Then we talk about the paths to take, and then we talk about the pros and cons of all the different paths, you know? And where are they coming from? What are their thoughts about these different paths, um, in order to reach their goals and expectations? Um, and then what we do then with me, if they’re going to choose to go into franchising, then it is a guided process. And we talk specifically like what type of business ownership would you like to learn about? What type of industry would you be interested in learning about? And we tell people to not don’t just pick on your passions, um, and experience. If there’s anything out there that you would be interested in learning about, you know, you don’t have to be the expert in enfranchising. Uh, or in that that industry, uh, you’re going to hire those people that are going to be working in the business. You’re going to be working on the business. Um, and then with the franchising, you get the training, you get the coaching, um, and all the support as you’re moving through the business, uh, to help you in that area. And then what we do is we go ahead and present them with three different possibilities to start learning. They have several, you know, 4 to 5 conversations with franchisors just to get a good understanding of the business, the model, how territories are set up and then the financials.

Kim Boike: And then they’re going to go into validation calls where they get to have conversations with the franchisees, where they are getting to get more of the nuts and bolts out of it. So, you know, they get to ask the people that are in the trenches working right now, how has this, uh, process and this business been for you? What were your challenges? How did you get through those challenges? What are are the franchisors supporting you in the way that they’re telling me that they would support you? Um, and I always tell my clients, you know, ask them if the franchisees if they would do it again. You know, that’s a really important question. And, um, you know, you can get a lot of information by talking with them. So then they take that information that they’ve gained, and then we’re talking again looking at their goals and expectations. Is this something that can help you get to that? Yes. And if so, do you want to move forward? If not, do you want to continue learning about franchises, maybe a different brand or, um, you know, and if they come to the the consensus that, yes, they want to keep learning, we’ll keep having phone calls. If they don’t, then we go ahead and see where I can pass them off to to learn more about either real estate, stock markets or other ways to invest or looking for a corporate job as well.

Lee Kantor: Now, can you remember back when you were, um, thinking about, okay, when you made the decision? Okay, I’m not going to get back to teaching because you spent your I mean, a long time, I mean, several decades involved in teaching, you know, through, uh, the school systems. And that was kind of your boss for, I guess, what, 20 or 30 years. Right?

Kim Boike: Right.

Lee Kantor: And then, um, when you said, okay, that’s not for me. Do you remember, like, did you go online and Google? What should I do next, like, or did you find, like, how’d you find this coach to help kind of guide you? Because I would think at that moment when you make that decision, you know, it’s one of those the world’s your oyster. Now, you could pick anything and then at some point you need some help in curating the list and narrow things down. And then you found a coach. But did you go online first and then find a coach? Like how did that find a coach part happen?

Kim Boike: Yeah, actually my husband, it was a LinkedIn outreach. Uh, that, uh, coach that contacted my husband and my husband actually responded back to them. So I didn’t I didn’t even think I was going to go into franchising. Uh, I had always thought of business ownership, but I just never knew what to do or how to how to get a business even started. So I didn’t even think about franchising until he had, uh, responded to the coaches, um, outreach. Um, so if people are looking for a coach, yes, you can Google and you can find coaches. But I never even knew that this even existed until we started going through the process. So we do do LinkedIn outreaches. We do do, um, like franchise shows. We do do webinars and networking and things like that, trying to get our names out, uh, and letting people know that we do have this opportunity out there for people to take the chance. But that is how we were engaged, um, was through a LinkedIn outreach.

Lee Kantor: So. But the outreach wasn’t to you. That was to your husband was what were you doing anything to look around? Were you, like talking to people or you were just like, I guess I’m not going to teach anymore. Oh you were.

Kim Boike: No, I wasn’t going to teach anymore. I just decided, um, it just didn’t fit our family anymore with the pay cut and, um, what was going on with our family at the time? So I took, kind of took the year to just kind of be home for a while and just kind of really think about what I wanted to do, not not knowing which direction to go. Uh, I started getting antsy. And I’m like, all right, now it’s time for me to go back to work. I, I enjoy work, uh, so I wanted to so honestly, I was just looking on LinkedIn, looking for jobs. Uh, I had been lucky enough to get at least one interview with one company, and I interviewed, had several interviews with them. Uh, but I really noticed that looking for a job was not at all what had been, you know, 27 years ago. You know, how do I get through the Linked in AI? You know, or, you know, get past that so that somebody can recognize my resume. You know, back in the day, I can make a phone call or even go into the office and hand my resume in, at least have a human connection, um, and at least maybe show my personality where it’s not like that these days, you know, um, they have filters, and you just.

Kim Boike: I was having a hard time getting noticed, so that was frustrating in itself. And I also see that with a lot of my clients as well. So we were lucky enough, honestly, uh, that a coach reached out to my husband and he started going through the process. At first I didn’t even I’m like, no, no, that’s your thing. And then he’s like, no, I really think you need to get on here and start listening. So I did, and yes, I wish I would have gotten done sooner, even, um, knowing what I know now, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know until I started learning. And that’s what I tell people. You know, you may have some ideas of franchising. Um, you know, people think of fast food restaurants right away. Um, or, you know, some of the, the bad things, you know. Oh, my uncle’s friend had a franchise, and they didn’t do so well. Um, but we want to go ahead. And it was nice for me and my husband to go through this experience, because we got to actually talk to the people that are doing it right now and what their experiences is, are, and not base it on other people’s perception of it.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you decided, okay, I’m going to do this now, and in your whole career, you never really had to do selling. Like you were there as a service provider, as a teacher and as a reading instructor. Um, and now you have to, you know, sell somebody something and ask for money. And for some people that’s, uh, you know, a little I don’t want to say difficult, but it’s challenging. It’s something new. It’s just they’ve just never had that. Hey, do you want to buy this thing? And I know when you’re selling in the way this is framed for people, it’s more of a. Here. I’m showing you options. Is this something you’re you’re comfortable with or want to learn more about? And it’s very you have a very elegant sales process. But ultimately you’re asking someone to invest a lot of money in something. Uh, so it’s a, you know, a high ticket sale. Uh, no matter how you frame it. And, you know, if it doesn’t work out, you know, they’re going to come to you and say, hey, you encourage me to do this. Did you feel any trepidation about that? Like, how did you kind of work through the emotions that are associated with selling somebody, you know, a you know, it could be their life savings.

Kim Boike: Right, right. No, it, um, it definitely was a concern of mine because I am not a sales person. I always said that, um, I was glad that my husband received the outreach, because I probably would have just deleted it because that’s what I do. I say yes too quickly, so I just have learned to say no right away. So, um, my with learning about the entrepreneur source and then the two, two other brands that we were looking at, um, the entrepreneur source for me was less of a hard sale. It was more about the education. And that’s what made me feel comfortable, you know, giving people that safe space to learn. And I had people that trained me. I had people that, um, are supportive, you know, through our franchise and coach us through that, um, uncertainty and through those fear feelings. Um, you know, can I do this imposter syndrome? You know, it definitely doesn’t happen overnight. It definitely is something that takes time. Um, and that was new for me. Um, but honestly, I feel like maybe like the first sales thing I have to do is just get them to move forward. Um, and I and but from my clients in the past, I’m always asking them, how are you? Are you getting value out of this? You know, give me some feedback. And a lot of it has been that they have felt very understood. They were given that safe space. They didn’t have the pressure. Um, obviously, if it’s not right for them, it’s not right for them. And then, like I said. And that’s okay. Um, it just happened to be right for us. Um, but you don’t know what you don’t know until you start learning. And then just having that opportunity to learn, um, is really was a nice experience for us and have been for many of our clients.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you remember that first person that you approached, that you talked talk to that said, hey, this is something I’m interested in and then went through the entire process and then ultimately, you know, purchase one of the franchises that you recommended.

Kim Boike: Yes, yes. He, uh, was in it. He was in corporate and had been laid off unexpectedly and, uh, didn’t know what to do. So was looking for jobs, uh, having a hard time with the AI as well. And so it’s like, you know what? I’ve got time right now. You know, he’s laid off, I’ve got time. And we always encourage people to take a parallel path. Don’t just do this. Also look for a job, you know, and I have many clients that will even get a job and continue the process. Um, but he, uh, he my my client, my first one that had triggered has, uh, went into a senior care service full time, uh, helping, um, families look for places, uh, for their family members. Um, and he is enjoying it. So in contact with him today? He is enjoying it and, um, really feels like he has a good purpose and he’s got control of his his time, his energy, his efforts, and he’s working and working hard for himself and making money for himself instead of for somebody else.

Lee Kantor: Now, as part of being a business owner yourself, is there activities you have to do every day to stay top of mind to find that next coaching client, or is that part of the playbook that they share with you?

Kim Boike: Um, yes. That is definitely part of the playbook that they share. Uh, we have LinkedIn campaigns that they have taught us how to use and how to, um, I use those effectively. Uh, we also are encouraged to get out and network. Um, networking was not easy for me in the beginning. I didn’t even do it until after the first year, gave myself the first year just to learn the business and get used to the business. Now I’m out in networking groups and it has just been a very welcoming and inviting and wonderful experience, uh, with the people, um, that are there. They’re just really there to help you and to help grow your business, uh, in ways and then also encouraged to go to franchise shows, um, and, you know, even do webinars and get involved with the community, um, in different ways because you never know who’s going to need you. And it may not even be the person, uh, sitting right next to me. Like I go to the networking events and those people don’t need me. They already have businesses, but it’s somebody maybe that they know that gets laid off later on down the line. And another one I’m really my goal this year is to really get involved more with the veterans. I’ve done recruit military, um, even working with the spouses of military, um, you know, coming out of that military life into civilian life for the veterans, uh, can always be challenging. Um, and, you know, looking for a corporate is definitely one, uh, area to look at, but also look at business ownership to see if it’s for you or not.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you were, um, going to these networking, uh, meetings for the first time, was there did people give you advice or tips on how to get the most out of those experiences? Because again, that’s another area that if the thing that’s interesting for one of the things that are interesting about your path is that you came from an environment that isn’t very it’s not a businessy thing. You’re, you’re you’re a really a public servant helping children. And now, uh, just from a mindset standpoint, like when you entered work every day, you were going to talk to a child about, you know, their reading or help them be better at better human beings. And now you’re helping somebody with their career. I know it’s learning and education, but it’s just a different type of interaction that you have to do now, every day after I’ve done done something for, you know, 30 years the other way and it just the mindset shift that it takes, it takes someone really strong and resourceful and resilient. And it just kudos to you for making that transition. And I’m sure it wasn’t it. There had to be some bumps in the road of doing that.

Kim Boike: Right. Well thank you. Um, but yes it’s it’s never easy right. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Uh, that’s what I tell my clients too, uh, that there definitely is growth. Um, and a mindset shift, um, as you go through the process and still ongoing, I’m not even where I want to be. You know, I’m always going to be improving myself in one way or the other. Um, it could be technical. It could be, um, just emotional, just myself. Talk to myself. You know, I’m not listening to those negative thoughts. Um, but getting the coaching through the franchising. You know, they have the coaching that they’ll give to you. Um, has been very beneficial. Uh, and then the support from other franchisees that are doing the exact same thing that I am. I’ve got people to, uh, rely on that. Hey, this is what’s going on for me today. You know, people in my training group, actually, we’re, you know, we’re talking and understanding and talking about challenges. Um, and then we also have the veterans, you know, that have been here for a while. The people that you know are five years ahead of me, you know, okay, you’re at this spot now, but how did you get there when you were at my spot, you know. What tips can you help me? And and a lot of times, it’s not even just with the business. It is mindset. For me, my biggest challenge probably is the mindset, um, because, you know, that imposter syndrome comes in and, like, you’re a teacher before Kim, you know, and you know, you’re like you said, like a public servant. Um, what what makes you think that you can do this now? Well, why can’t I do it? You know, and that negative talk.

Kim Boike: I really had to train my brain not to go there and to push it away right away and not listen to it. Um, because everyone is. A a growing, um, career that challenges them. I like to be challenged. So it does definitely challenges me. It definitely gets me out of my comfort zone. But one thing I’ve learned through this whole process is that if you’re you’re not growing, if you’re in your comfort zone, the only way that you’re going to grow is if you get to get yourself uncomfortable and getting past those barriers. Um, and so in that way, it has just been exponential, uh, experience for me. And I have appreciated all the support that everyone gives me. And everyone wants you to be successful, you know, um, it’s not worry. We’re not worried about oversaturation or things like that. Everyone’s rooting for you. And I also, and I tell my clients the same thing. Put yourself around like minded people. You know, you want to, uh, be around the positive, the optimistic people. You don’t want to be around the naysayers, uh, because that will just bring you down. And we talk about that sometimes. It’s your family and your friends. You know, they have the, um, your best interest at heart, but they’re not always as optimistic or can see the big picture like you can. So you have to be careful with who you’re sharing, what you’re doing with, um, until you have come to that absolute decision that this is what you’re doing and I don’t care what you say, I’m going to go ahead and do this. Um, but yeah, it’s not easy, but it’s, um, it’s been exciting, to say the least.

Lee Kantor: Now, in your previous work, I’m sure you had rewarding moments on the regular on a regular basis when kids got the, you know, the aha moment when they figured something out or you helped them kind of learn something new. Are you? Can you share maybe a rewarding moment that has happened since you’ve changed gears into this entrepreneurial venture? Is there a moment that has happened where you’re like, okay, I’m on the right path. This is making an impact.

Kim Boike: Yes, yes. No. Uh, I love working with the kids. You get those? You know, just making them feel safe, secure and, um, feeling and letting them know that they’re doing a great job always made me feel good. Uh, of course, students now that I’m working with are older. Uh, could very easily well be my old students, um, with how many years I taught. So I look at it that way as well. But, yes, uh, I have learned that there is a statistic within our franchise that there are 95% of the people that have gone into business with us, uh, have actually gone into something that they would have dismissed early on. But what we do is we really do challenge people to be open minded to the different possibilities. I want you to learn in the beginning. I don’t want you making decisions. I’ll learn about the business models, learn about the finances, learn about absentee or semi absentee and full time owner operator. See what it will get you. What the difference is. With that in mind, I’ve had many clients of course start looking at things they’re passionate about, uh, things that they have experience with.

Kim Boike: But when they learn that maybe those passions aren’t going to give them the income and the lifestyle that they’re looking for, uh, when they are hesitant with me in the beginning about looking at maybe plumbing, you know, or I have a female looking at automotive or I have a male looking at beauty, beauty and healthcare, you know, wealth care. They, um, they kind of hesitate, you know, and I said, I want you to learn, um, and then when they have that aha moment of like, wow, I never thought that this business could do this for me. That’s an exciting time. And that’s when they see, you know, why we challenge them, why we want them to keep that, be open to the different possibilities. Think about possibilities, not probabilities. Um, it’s very interesting. And that’s why I tell them you don’t know what you don’t know until you start learning. So when they have those, uh, insights and are finding out that there’s industries out there that they never even thought of, uh, that could give them their income, lifestyle, wealth and equity goals. Um, that gets me excited.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you. What is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Kim Boike: Yes. They can uh, go to my website. At. And my, uh, you can read more about what we do. We have podcasts. We have a link to my calendar. Uh, there’s, uh, testimonials. And, uh, I’d be happy to have, uh, a call just to see if this is something that would be, um, kind of helpful to you. You know, if I, if I would have known that this opportunity was out there, I now wish I did. I would have done this a long time ago. I just never knew the opportunity was available.

Lee Kantor: And that’s k b o I k dot e o u r c e.com. Kim, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Kim Boike: Thank you Lee I appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Stretching Beyond Limits: The Innovative Approach of Stretch Zone

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Franchise Marketing Radio
Franchise Marketing Radio
Stretching Beyond Limits: The Innovative Approach of Stretch Zone
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In this episode of Franchise Marketing Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Lindsey McFadden, Chief Marketing Officer of Stretch Zone. Lindsey shares the origins and growth of Stretch Zone, a franchise specializing in practitioner-assisted stretching. She discusses their unique approach to stretching, inclusive client base, and the ideal franchisee profile. The conversation highlights Stretch Zone’s collaborative franchisee support, grassroots and digital marketing strategies, and commitment to community engagement. Lindsey also outlines future plans focused on operational basics and franchisee empowerment, emphasizing the importance of relationship-driven business practices for long-term success.

Lindsey McFadden currently serves as Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at Stretch Zone.

In this role, she leads the company’s marketing operations: overseeing advertising, branding, public relations, corporate communications, and support for franchisees.

Connect with Linda on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Origins and founding story of Stretch Zone
  • Unique approach to practitioner-assisted stretching services
  • Target customer demographics and client benefits
  • Marketing strategies and community engagement efforts
  • Franchisee support and ideal franchisee profile
  • Growth plans and operational strategies for 2025
  • Importance of relationship-building in franchise operations
  • Balancing digital marketing with in-person outreach
  • Collaborative dynamics between corporate and franchisees
  • Educational resources and tools for franchisee success

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio. It’s Franchise Marketing Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Franchise Marketing Radio. And this is gonna be a good one. Today on the show, we have the Chief Marketing Officer with Stretch Zone, Lindsey McFadden. Welcome.

Lindsey McFadden: Thank you so much for having me. Good to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. For folks who aren’t familiar, share a little bit about Stretch Zone. How you serving folks?

Lindsey McFadden: Absolutely. So Stretch Zone is a franchise network of practitioner assisted stretch studios where we do all the work and you get all the benefits. That’s kind of our unofficial tagline. So. So what we do is one thing and one thing only, and we professionally stretch people. We have a proprietary protocol in series of stretches that we do, and we have a patented strapping system that is affixed to our tables to make sure that you’re properly positioned, stabilized, and isolated, to really get the most of the stretch, and also to ensure that you are safe and secure. And so all of our sessions are 30 minutes and they are one on one. Think like personal training where one of our certified and trained practitioners guides you through a series of stretches to to address whatever your needs are. You know, people that come to us sometimes perhaps have sciatica pain or lower back issues. Others are athletes, you know that just use stretching as part of their recovery and really everywhere in between. So that’s kind of who we are and what we do. We just hit 413 locations open across 41 states.

Lee Kantor: So what was the genesis of the idea? How did this kind of launch?

Lindsey McFadden: Sure. So our founder, Jordan Gold, his grandfather, his Pop-Pop, is kind of the why behind stretch zone. So his grandfather was suffering from loss of mobility due to side effects of diabetes, and a personal trainer and kind of therapist by trade, he said, you know, I’m going to start stretching him every day and see if I can get him some quality of life back. And that’s kind of how Stretch Zone was born. And so he started that. But it was really a one on one business for about ten years. And he just had clients and would travel the world stretching people. And then in kind of 2014 ish, it became a business. And then in 2017, we began franchising, and all of the early growth was was really organic and authentic because of the impact stretch zone was having on people’s lives. It really spread like, like wildfire solely through word of mouth. And that’s really the genesis of Stretch Zone and how we started our growth story.

Lee Kantor: So at some point it just transitioned to stretching. Only that was the only kind of protocol that was being offered.

Lindsey McFadden: Correct. So, you know, kind of Jordan’s theory behind stretch zone is that you can’t overstretch a muscle. Right. Think of it like a seat belt. When you slowly pull out your seat belt to get buckled in, it’s loose and it’s easy and it’s fluid. If you jerk your seatbelt, it’ll recoil right? And tense up. Muscles are very similar, so instead of trying to elongate or lengthen the muscles, our theory for stretching is that we really work to reeducate your your nervous system and your stretch tolerance so that over time with our protocols you’re more flexible, but it’s really adjusting your stretch tolerance and your reflex than it is stretching your muscles.

Lee Kantor: And at the beginning, it sounds like the first, uh, kind of person to use it was just a regular person. It wasn’t a professional athlete. They were using it to kind of help with a medical concern.

Lindsey McFadden: Right.

Lee Kantor: So is that kind of the lens that you look at it through, like the the client can be anybody That’s right.

Lindsey McFadden: We say our geographic base is is really everybody anybody can benefit from stretching. You know, if you talk to your doctor or a physical therapist or personal trainer or really anybody, everybody knows that stretching is beneficial for your body. And so we say we have a limitless demographic. You know, we stretch everybody over the age of 14. Um, and we do not stretch pregnant women, but otherwise, really we see people. I think our oldest, um, member we had was 104. Uh, so, so really, everybody comes to stretch zone.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re trying to attract somebody who maybe isn’t athletic or considers themselves into fitness but leads a sedentary life, how do you kind of even find those people in a local market and introduce just the concept of stretching, and that they might see benefit?

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah, I think that what we’re seeing, though, you know, here in America in general, is such a shift towards wellness culture. Right? There’s just so much more of an awareness of alternative, I alternative, I think wellness avenues that ten years ago didn’t exist. So when people are looking for, um, for solutions to problems, right, whether they’re just googling something or through word of mouth stretching really is so much more common today as an actual vertical in the space than it was, you know, even just a few years ago. So I think, you know, we try to lead by, by telling the consumer what are the problems that we’re solving, right? So whether you have sciatica pain, say you’re not an athlete at all. You just have that nagging pain that affects your sleep or your posture, you know? Or maybe you’re hunched over a computer all day, right? We’re we’re trying to lead with what we solve. Right. And you don’t have to be an athlete or a weekend warrior or even a senior. Everybody can benefit from stretching. And that’s really the message that we’re working to get out to the to the general public.

Lee Kantor: But how does a layperson who isn’t kind of fitness minded even connect the dots that their lower back pain might be solved by stretching rather than, you know, like a doctor would maybe prescribe something for for that alleviate the pain.

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah. So we work with a lot of what we kind of call referral sources unofficially, you know, with we have a lot of actual franchisees that are chiropractors, for example. So when people are looking through more traditional mediums of of care, whether chiropractic or physical therapy, we work closely with a lot of those modalities as a referral source for either if those are not working or care after the fact. And then, you know, we do a lot of consumer education. So our franchisees in the markets they serve, we really focus on a lot of grassroots marketing, showing up at, you know, green markets or events in communities where we can display our service and really get the consumer to have eyes on it, because if you’ve never seen it, you might not know what it is or even what to expect. And so we really try to take an education first approach through, you know, thorough blog writing that we do on our site. We do a lot of press and really local engagement to try to get the word out, um, in local communities that we serve.

Lee Kantor: And what is that profile of that ideal, uh, franchisee? Are they people that are chiropractors or are chiropractors, for example, just a referral source?

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah, most of our franchisees are not. I think the commonality between our franchise owners is that they want to make an impact in their communities. They’re looking to be entrepreneurs, or they already have perhaps other businesses. And this is another step in their entrepreneurial journey. Um, but they really want to work in a service that makes people feel better and impacts the lives of their community. You know, there’s a lot of people that say, sure, there’s a lot of ways to make money in this world. You know, you can have a franchise in food or coffee or something. And I’m sure those are lucrative as well. But are you actually helping people? And so I think the common thread between all of our owners is that goal and that desire to help people. Um, some of them do have either a medical background or exercise science physiology, but a lot of them are really just looking for a business that is focused around community connection and helping people.

Lee Kantor: And then is this typically, are they leaving kind of a corporate background or a more enterprise level organization? And this is kind of their first venture into entrepreneurial ism, or are they kind of just expanding their base from, you know, maybe I was a personal trainer and I’m just going to add this to, you know, what I’m doing?

Lindsey McFadden: The answer is really all the above. I mean, we have owners that are from, you know, fortune 100 companies to people that are, like you said, personal trainers or massage therapists that have looked to own their own business and, um, and everything in between. And one of the things that makes Stretch Zone so attractive is that there’s a very low barrier to entry from a capital perspective, and we have an exceedingly quick and easy build out. Um, you need, you know, basically a 1000 square foot box with a bathroom and we supply the equipment. Right? There’s no waste spoilage, uh, overhead, moving inventory. And so I think because it’s a, quote, easy business to open and maintain, it’s very attractive to first time entrepreneurs. And then there’s a lot of synergies of multi-unit ownership. So that is what really attracts, I think, more seasoned entrepreneurs or business professionals. Um, 93% of our owners are multi-unit owners.

Lee Kantor: And then there there is also a mobile unit. You mentioned that you show up at different, um, markets and events. Is that a another revenue stream or is that more for promotional purposes?

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah, that’s for promotional purposes. We have portable tables that are patented, straps affixed to so we can demo our service. But that is not um, that’s not the main business. That’s really just community awareness and outreach.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, you’re in next year. I think you’re trying to really kind of put the pedal to the ground. This is going to be a big year for you. Next year hopefully.

Lindsey McFadden: Oh, that’s if I do my job right. That’s the goal.

Lee Kantor: So for folks out there that are, um, you know, part of a growing franchise system like yours, how do you prepare for kind of a growth surge? What are some of the things you’ve done as the chief marketing officer to kind of launch the year in the in the way you hope it goes?

Lindsey McFadden: I think that we’re really focused our kind of 2025 mantra, at least for, for me and my department was back to basics. You know, I think this pendulum swung really far from organic and grassroots and, you know, connection marketing to almost an entirely digital space, largely as a result of Covid, right? Our events and all of our, you know, in-person marketing kind of went to zero. And and I’ll tell you, I think as a system, we didn’t really recover from that in terms of our our event initiatives and our marketing in different markets that we serve, really until this year. And so I think the focus this year was really back to basics and connecting the community. And that’s how this business was built. I mean, we had hyper successful stores before Meta or Google ads were ever a thing in our world. And so as we prepare for for next year and what’s to come, I think it’s really making sure our foundation is solid, right? Making sure that everybody has a handle on our tools and platforms and is really up to speed with where we are. So, for example, the entire month of December, my team has been hosting what we call refresher trainings, where we have a live training. Two of them a week every week to on everything. Right. So people who are new to the brand or people that just want a refresher as the name states, can really opt in. You know, it’s really our goal to make information accessible and make sure we have beyond ample training resources for our franchisees and for their staff. Um, and so we really prepare by kind of making sure your house is in order, um, and doubling down on the training and support for the tools that we have to execute.

Lee Kantor: So you’re really leaning into the franchisees and helping them just be more effective community builders locally.

Lindsey McFadden: That’s right. And making sure it’s not just them, but their staff is familiar with all the tools at their disposal, right. Because it’s one thing when you first go through training, but, you know, life happens and maybe you get busy. So I think it’s really, you know, arming them to be pillars of their community, whether it’s the franchise owner themself or somebody on their team. Um, that’s really where our focus has been and making sure that we can meet the consumer where they are. Right. You know, we have definitely seen, um, shifting consumer behavior. Um, for sure. There has been a return to work culture also, right, in this post-Covid time. And so making sure, for example, that our studios are staffed on nights and weekends. Right. Because if you’re a working professional, which many of our members are, you need options of when you can come in. So it’s really when I say back to basics, you know? It sounds like an oversimplification, but really doubling down on the basics of availability and scheduling and really using the tools that are at their disposal has been our focus for this year.

Lee Kantor: And it sounds like you’re really investing in the franchisee. You’re trying to upskill their learning and and their whole staff, not just the one person that cut the check, but just give everybody on the team this the knowledge to serve the community.

Lindsey McFadden: And people want connection, right? People want to be part of something and something that they believe in. And if we empower not just our franchise owners, but their teams, they become, as a marketer, walking billboards for me and for us and for our business and the service that we offer. Right. So getting them to to really buy into the business and the culture and the change that we see in our members lives is really paramount. Because if we’re grounded in the why, then the rest kind of comes easy. And I think that, um, we’ve always been a business again. We are not like a McDonald’s type franchise or something, where it’s exactly the same in every single community that we serve. The service and the stretch absolutely is. But the way that our franchise owners connect with their communities. You know, we have some that are in very heavy golf or tennis communities and some that are nowhere near a golf course or a tennis court. Right. And so we want to make sure, you know, we’re just launching some new creative, for example, around skiing and snowboarding for some of our mountain town owners. So the goal is that we’re really making sure that we arm our owners and their staff to meet their customers where they are.

Lee Kantor: Now, how are the franchisees? Are they kind of saying, thank you? Where have you been all my life? Like, is that exactly what I need? Or are they kind of like, oh, now you’re giving me another thing I have to learn and do?

Lindsey McFadden: I think they’re really receptive. And one thing that stretch zone and you know, kudos to to Tony, our president, CEO, my boss, um, is that we’ve always been really focused on the core business. You know, there’s so many shiny balls that you could be chasing and new objects and and I’m gonna be honest with, with past colleagues and people in the franchise space, I see that end so poorly all the time, you know, trying to implement a new tool or try something new. And it creates this whiplash effect for the owners because there’s so much to learn and to keep up. And maybe some are successful and others aren’t. Uh, but I think that we’ve really remained true in our support of the franchise owners, and they’re very receptive and appreciative of that. And I think that we have an exceedingly open dialog. Um, like we have a franchise advisory council. We had a call today. And, you know, if they don’t like something we’re doing, they’re not shy about telling us and we vet and run all of our things by them as well. So to me, we have an exceedingly collaborative relationship with our franchise owners. Um, and that is definitely not always the case. I’ve been part of other organizations where I would not be able to say the same.

Lee Kantor: Can you share maybe something that you’ve kind of decided to do from a corporate standpoint, that may be the initial idea was brought to you by one of your franchisees.

Lindsey McFadden: Oh, absolutely. I mean, it might sound silly, but having trainings on nights and weekends, you know, we have franchise owners that they have staff that only works nights and weekends. And so we had to expand our training calendar and our training offerings to meet nights and weekends as well. Um, that was just something super simple, but I think that we rely on them because they’re the ones in the field every day executing, and we rely on that feedback to help guide what we’re doing, to make sure that we’re adequately supporting them. Or if we’re not, what can we do to change to ensure that we are now?

Lee Kantor: Part of your playbook is kind of to create these, um, partner relationships or at least referral partner relationships with some of the local community people. Do you have kind of a some best practices when it comes to, uh, building up those kind of referral systems? Because a lot of franchisers talk about that. And then they kind of leave it up to the franchisee to figure things out. But do you have a kind of go to market strategy in order to help your local franchisees build those relationships with people who might refer their next customer to them?

Lindsey McFadden: Absolutely. We have an exceedingly thorough guide. We have a checklist. We have scripting, for example, you know, if you’re going to approach this type of business, here’s how to position the service. If you’re going to approach that type of business, here’s how to position the service. Because, you know, we work really well with a lot of boutique fitness concepts. So whether that is a CrossFit or a Pilates studio or a hit gym or whatever it is in market, we do a lot of, um, events and co-branding initiatives with those types of businesses. But then we also work a lot with corporate initiatives, right? Dentist’s office, doctor’s offices, um, attorneys, or just big corporate offices where people are sitting all day and, you know, they need to be stretched out. And so, you know what you would say when you’re going into a a fitness brand versus a corporate office is certainly not the same approach, right? So we have all of that scripting and those best practices outlined for our our owners. And I know it sounds silly, but my main pillar of marketing is it’s really hard to make things really simple. But if you make things really simple, people will do it. And so, um, I got some funny looks when I rolled out this guide and it was, you know, very thorough and step by step. But I said, listen, I want somebody to be able to pick this up at a studio in Pick Your City USA, who’s never done any sort of sales or introductions to feel comfortable and confident that they have the tools at hand to be able to do so.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about maybe, um, how one of your marketing ideas helped take a franchisee, maybe who was struggling to a new level?

Lindsey McFadden: Oh, absolutely. I mean, one of the biggest things is we have an ownership group here in Florida that has a lot of stores. And, you know, I was really, really focused on they need to stop spending so much money on digital ads and get out in the community and create, like a budget spreadsheet, allocate your team’s time and dollars to these events. And for four weeks, do two events a week and get back to me and see how it is. And it was incredible because it’s not just about selling at the event, but those connections, those referrals. And that eyes on Your brand is such a downstream effect as it pertains to lead generation and even conversion of of members, because if they’ve seen the service or they’ve even experienced it, that is that’s a really warm lead versus somebody that’s scrolling, you know, on Facebook or Instagram that happens to see a picture or video.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. If you figured out how to, um, move people away from digital ads to, uh, more human interactions, uh, kudos to you, because a lot of people are just looking for that magic bullet that, oh, I just run these ads and I don’t have to think anymore. And this is just going to fill my, you know, blank business. But I just think that that’s shortsighted. And especially today, it isn’t working anywhere near as well as it did maybe in the past.

Lindsey McFadden: Of course, we see that that’s exactly what we see, right? It’s more it’s more costly. It’s less efficient. And, um, and you need to supplement that. Right. And so for sure, we have owners that are not doing what I say or, or following that same guidance, but the ones that that are, are seeing such success that I really try to highlight them as case studies almost, you know, don’t listen to me, listen to them. They did it. And here’s what they’re seeing. Um, so I think the goal here is really from, from our system is how can we leverage, uh, those positive stories to really tell the story to the other owners that are perhaps on the fence or just not participating?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. It’s so funny that, um, people don’t realize when they’re doing digital ads. The worst case scenario is that nothing happens, right? But the worst case that happens when you do a human to human interaction is they know who you are and they like you. Like the worst case scenario is so much better. Um, it might be more inefficient in terms of numbers, but it’s a much better outcome.

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah. And I think that we see that, you know, in terms of, you know, customer lifetime value too, you know, that’s just a way more informed and interested consumer. And I think even if you’re, you know, we say this all the time, if somebody has seen you stretching people out at a fair or a street event or something at a gym in a community, even if they’re not looking to sign up right now, they’ve seen it. And you don’t know that they’re recommending it to their brother or sister, cousin, husband, whatever it is, as a referral. Um, that’s going to come to you in a day, a week, a month, whatever, have you. So, you know, I think that’s that’s really our goal. And it’s not free, right. Like, there’s certainly a cost to doing that. But what I, what I try to teach the owners is that the cost is so much lower than you think it is, and so much more efficient than digital ads. And the long term benefits are just so much greater.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, but it takes that kind of long term view. This isn’t kind of you have to be really a relationship minded person to believe what you’re saying, as opposed to a transactional minded person who just wants to throw dollars at something and hope, you know, that leads are going to come from that.

Lindsey McFadden: And I think we try to, especially now, you know, I’ve been around the brand for for a little while now and, and we try we are exceedingly clear on that, especially during our franchise vetting process. Right. When we’re looking to bring new owners into the business or people are looking to join the business, is that, you know, this is not a set it and forget it business. We’re in the people business. We’re in the relationship business. And you meaning potential franchise owner needs to understand that and be on board with that. Right? And if you’re not, then this is probably not the business for you.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. I mean you got to have those conversations at go. Not after they wrote the check, that’s for sure.

Lindsey McFadden: For sure.

Lee Kantor: Well, uh, congratulations on all the momentum. If somebody wants to learn more, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Lindsey McFadden: Yeah. Go to. Com and you can find the location nearest you. Um, for all of our studios, your first stretch is free. Uh, we believe in in that and letting everybody experience the service themselves. So I would encourage anybody to find the location nearest them and get stretched if they haven’t, um. And write about it. Let us know how you enjoyed it.

Lee Kantor: Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Lindsey McFadden: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Franchise Marketing Radio.

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