Intro: [00:00:01] You’re listening to Innovation Radio, where we interview entrepreneurs focused on innovation, technology and entrepreneurship. Innovation radio is brought to you by the world’s first theme park for entrepreneurs the Levein’s Center of Innovation, the only innovation center in the nation to support the founders journey from Birth of an Idea through successful exit or global expansion. Now here’s your host, Lee Kantor.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:28] Lee Kantor here another episode of Innovation Radio and couldn’t be doing this kind of work without support from our sponsor, the Levine Center of Innovation. Today’s show is going to be great. I think you’re going to enjoy listening to our guest and learning quite a bit. Today on Innovation Radio, we have Kelly Kedis Ogborn with Space Foundation. Welcome, Kelly.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:00:53] Thank you, Lee. I’m really looking forward to this conversation and talking about all the wonderful things happening in space.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:58] Yeah, we’ve talked a lot about what’s happening on Earth, so it’s time we get beyond that and understand what the possibilities are out there in space. But before we get too far into it, tell us about Space Foundation, how you serve in folks.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:01:12] Absolutely. So it’s it’s a privilege to join you today and be able to talk to your audience. So Space Foundation has been a long standing pillar within the space community. We’re actually turning 40 years old this year. So it spanned four decades. And we really are the vanguard for information, education and collaboration across the global space ecosystem. And so what that means is that we provide really diverse products and services to help the totality of everyone trying to scale and grow into space. And what most people know is for is the Space Symposium, which is a annual conference this year. It’s going to be in its 38th year. That happens every April in Colorado Springs. And what that does is it’s really widely attended with all cross sections of space. So everyone from national security, academia, commercial and civil come to really talk about the policy and the evolution of where space is going. And then we also on the other side of the House do a lot of really robust K through 12 education. We believe that space really begins in the classroom. And so being able to educate and inspire students about how to get involved in the ecosystem and what skill sets and background scale is really critical for us. And then where I fit is sort of in the middle of those two. So I am the vice president of Space Commerce and Entrepreneurship for Space Foundation. And what I really focus on are the startup startup ecosystem and the entrepreneurs and also the high growth companies that want to both qualify and quantify where space is going and create roadmaps for success. So I get the really fun job of being able to forecast market trends and tech trends and and figure out insertion points for companies so they can be successful in scale.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:58] So how has the evolution of the industry gone over these 40 years that you’ve been around? I would imagine if some point it was kind of government was the impetus to exploration and had the means to do some of these things. But nowadays it seems like there’s more entrepreneurs getting involved into this area. How have has it evolved over the years?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:03:23] Absolutely. It has evolved tremendously. However, there is still a lot of room for growth. And so what I mean by that is you can really think about it in three different ways. You can look about the government strategic role, you can look at investment profiles and also entrepreneurial tech activity. And I’ll I’ll touch on all three of those. So from a government aspect, you’re absolutely right. I mean, our space race started with the launch of Sputnik one in 1957, and really that’s what propelled the United States to get involved in space activities. And at that time, really from the 1950s until the early 1990s, all activities within space were vertically integrated and aligned with government priorities. And so the government really, from a national security perspective, set the direction of where they wanted to go. And so exploration and technological progression were sort of secondary to that space posturing because as you can imagine, it was very important for us to be to be first and to be the most long standing. But since then we are really moving away from this era of Apollo is what I like to categorize it. And the Apollo era was really critical because it really did give us our modern day space industry. But now we are moving into the era of Artemus, which calls for more collaboration as well as competition. But if we are collectively as an ecosystem, trying to go back to the moon, partially for posturing, but mainly right now it’s to conduct research missions, it’s to establish lunar outposts and then really use that use the surface of the moon as a leverage point to jump off into other orbits and also Mars and eventually go to Mars. It’s really critical to involve both government and the commercial world. And so now we’re seeing a little bit less vertically integrated from government direction down commercial up to now, the government really setting the strategic direction, but the commercial companies.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:05:26] He’s really interpreting what that means from a business opportunity and scaling into it. The second piece of that is if you just look at funding right now, space is really exploding. So this year, the space economy number was cataloged at $469 Billion and it’s projected to reach 1 trillion by 2040. And so 2040 is really not that far along. And 469 billion is very close to half. The other piece, too, is that we are, as an industry, 55% higher than just a decade ago. And what’s driving that is a lot of this in private investment into the ecosystem. Last year there was about $10 Billion of Private investment. And what’s interesting about it is that it was diversified not just on orbit. So traditionally investment would go toward your large scale satellite systems in geosynchronous orbit. But we are now seeing investment for low earth orbit, which is very, very close to the Earth’s surface for a diversity of types of technologies and business opportunities. And so the diversification has really made it exciting. And then on the technological side, one of the things that I always say is that the future of space will be anchored by familiar segments, but really defined by these emerging markets. And every day we see these new companies and ideas and capabilities coming online that as an industry we want to figure out what to do with them and and fold them in. And so it’s really starting to make people think more creatively about the future of space and how it can really encompass established space businesses and these young, agile, creative minds.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:10] Now, is that why it’s so important to engage younger people in the possibilities of space and working in this area and thinking creatively about this area? And and I would think that at some point that the creative class, the authors, the science fiction writers or dreamers or the, you know, people who make movies about space, all of those play kind of a role to inspire people to get involved and see the possibilities within space. And then you have, you know, the telescopes, the Webb telescope, the Hubble, that it’s out there showing you these amazing pictures of of worlds you can’t even imagine or years ago you didn’t even know existed. Like, how does that all come together and play? Because in order to have that growth, in order to have the ability to do all those things down the road, you need talent to be able to execute on that.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:08:06] You do. You need talent and you need agility are probably two of the main things. One thing that we benefit from in the space industry is that there is no shortage of very intelligent, driven people. And so you see this creativity kind of permeate throughout the ecosystem, whether it’s from a government agency or someone from who’s like a really established industry rep down to your entrepreneurial mind. So we benefit from that fact. We also benefit from the fact that space is really cool. It’s not that difficult to work in an industry where it it’ll always attract people because no one’s going to say that it’s boring. So we at least have that baked in interest. One of the things that I often think about so I worked at DARPA for eight years and one of the directors I worked for would always say that what was once science fiction will often become science fact. And you are seeing that a lot of times with the space ecosystem. And like you said, you know the things of sci fi novels. A lot of times you just need the technological maturity to catch up with the wish of the future. And we are really at this precipice where when commerce activities become a thing in low earth orbit, which we are actually pretty close to doing, because what’s required to allow that to happen are really more sophisticated launch capabilities in terms of making them cheap, routine, ubiquitous, all of those things.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:09:35] It’s going to open up a tremendous need for creative ways to store energy, because if you’re going to power something on the moon, you’re not going to have outlets in the wall. It’s going to look at creative ways of manufacturing and refueling and all of these other areas that have people have been thinking about and dreaming about. But now it’s becoming more possible. And so getting as many industries involved and recognizing that there is a place for them in the future space ecosystem now, I think is really critical because once the possibility is there, we want everyone to be able to take advantage of it and also to be able to bring their inventions to us. And so one of the things that I think is extremely exciting is that I talk often about this concept of space adjacency. And really what it means is recognizing these secondary and tertiary markets and. Industries that are going to be relevant in three, five, seven years. So once we have lunar outposts, what do the creature comforts look like? What is the environmental assessment around it? What are the textiles need to look like to keep humans safe for long duration missions on the moon? So these industries all have a heritage to space and I want them to be able to self select in and find their path within it.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:50] So right now is that like you mentioned, textiles. Is there a budding textile in space startup or industry kind of somewhere out there going, Hey, we already do this here like it would, We could do it there. We just don’t know. We all know what kind of the needs and the stressors are there and how we can serve that niche market. Are there people today doing that or thinking like that, or is that something that once it happens, that will then be the catalyst to spur that type of thought and activity?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:11:28] The goal of what I do at SpaceX Foundation and what we’re going to what we’re going to be doing with level five space dock at the Leaven Center. And I know we will talk about that later, but is to get people to start thinking like that. So one of the things that I often do is I do this sort of space economy one on one talk and it talks about economic trends, market drivers, technologies that are really on the precipice and the forefront of really shaping the ecosystem. And the goal is for people to self recognize that their idea or their technology is relevant. Some of the industries that I have talked to, to your point about them thinking about it, one of the major strategies for some folks to think about is the strategy of pivoting. So even though you are not already in the space industry, doesn’t mean that you don’t have a product or service that can very much be tweaked in a very particular way, ruggedized in a very particular way for the conditions of space. And so when when I work with these entrepreneurs and these high growth companies, I’m also looking at established companies in potentially different industries that have a very, very relevant connection to the future of space.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:40] So like we mentioned, textiles, that probably isn’t the first thing that would come to mind from a person thinking about, oh, if we, you know, are in space, we’re going to need this. What are some of the other maybe things that are or you can clearly see as needed, but a person here may not think of it as relevant to space, but it could be.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:13:03] Absolutely. And before I get into that, I’ll actually do two qualifying thoughts, which I think are important for people to to distinguish how to think about space. So the space market really has two pieces to it. There’s the space to space market and the space to earth market. So the space to space market is goods and services produced in space for use in space. So these are going to be things that are more far reaching, things that are created on the lunar surface that can then be flown from that from the moon until Mars and other other aspects. But then there’s the space to earth market, which is the production of goods and service and space for use on Earth. And that market is a 95% of the space ecosystem. So it’s everything that touches us. It’s telecommunications, it’s broadband, it’s anyone who invents an app that has a time stamping feature or a GPS feature, you’re interacting with space data and space technology every day. There’s also a plethora of space technology spinoffs that have permeated our daily lives, like baby food and the Black and Decker drill, or now it was a lunar drill, Now it’s a vacuum. Also, invisible braces came from space technology. So I want to first level set with our listeners that they touch space at least 13 different times a day, and they may not realize it in terms of the future and these sort of how to think about the technologies and connections.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:14:32] Some are tech driven and then some are deeply human. So some of the areas that are really budding, I already mentioned textiles, but the area of fashion design and seamstresses. So it’s no shock to anybody listening that, you know, commercial space flight for space tourism is becoming a thing. And so when that becomes a reality, there’s an esthetic that is going to be assumed that comes with that kind of activity. But also if you have everyday citizens that do not necessarily meet the rigorous health standards that astronauts need to go through, you need spacesuits that are going to keep them healthy and safe. We’re also looking at advancements in augmented reality and virtual reality, as well as any sort of automation and artificial intelligence that’s going to be critical for certain space missions. But also people are deeply human and. So if we are asking them to give up life on Earth and go for these great exploration means on the moon and Mars and beyond, we need to keep them sane as well.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:15:37] One of the interesting things that has sort of, I think, hampered some people’s thoughts when they have simulated different Mars missions. It’s not the technological piece, but there’s crew mutiny about five days in, and it’s because you have people in dark spaces with strangers really kind of left to their own devices and their minds can start to wander. And so looking at creature comforts, how can you connect them back at home? How can you keep them healthy and safe that flies into biometrics or telemedicine? All these various areas that we take for granted on Earth but are extremely critical in space. Another way is manufacturing techniques. So there have been a lot of advancements in additive manufacturing and 3-D manufacturing. But one of the things that is truly going to allow space to thrive is if you take Earth out of the equation. And what I mean by that is that when you can when you don’t have to rely on things getting flown to you from the Earth’s surface, you really can then grow the sustainable ecosystem in space. And so being able to print your own machines and print your own electronics and things like that are really critical aspects that are going to be very necessary.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:47] Now when you’re in space and you have a need to build something or a place for someone to live or stay or play. How does not having gravity come into play of this? Do you need the same types of materials, or is it something that because there’s no gravity, you can get away with less materials or they have to be strengthened in this way instead of the way it is with the current gravity situation here on Earth?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:17:16] Yeah, that’s a great question. Those are definitely some of the conversations happening in terms of the in terms of the infrastructure and design and what these habitats look like. I am not a materials expert, but I do know that those those come into play. Also, what’s interesting about the surface of the moon is that there’s a lot of rare, rare earth materials that can be mined and then utilized for different type of building properties. And so there’s a lot of opportunity. It’s just what do you design those habitats to look like? The other piece too, is not so much for Lunar Outpost, but more for these long duration Mars missions, which I think is a community. And definitely from from Elon Musk perspective is where people are pushing. There’s still two very varying schools of thought on how people would live, whether they live underground or they live in these domes like we saw in The Martian. And so I think we’re still having those hypothetical conversations that will then turn into more, more practical conversations as we get closer to that becoming a reality. Right now, it’s more figuring out what’s going to be necessary and put the pieces in place and then the building will come.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:27] Now, has there any been has there been any like kind of surprises or maybe accidental inventions from like folks on the the International Space Station where they have to amuse themselves in some ways? Have they invented some games for zero gravity? Have they come up with some ways to pass the time that maybe was unexpected that they just figured out because they were they’re stuck with each other looking at each other for so long?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:18:57] Oh, I’m sure I don’t have any good, good answers to that. But I’m sure I always find with humans they the creativity and imagination never ceases to amaze me. Also recently, I had the pleasure of visiting Johnson Space Center out of Houston, where Mission Control is. And it was really fun to see because they have a 24 hour live cam on board the ISS. And so I was able to see some of the astronauts repairing spacesuits and doing all of these other things. One thing I can say about just accidental inventions, I mentioned baby food as a as a spin off from space technology, but that was actually came out of the need to create nutrient dense food for astronauts while while up in space. And then they realize that a lot of the same packaging and, you know, preservation and preparing of this food could be really helpful to infants. And so that’s how baby food came about.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:54] Yeah, humans are pretty creative and they figure things out, you know, especially when their life depends on it. You know, that’s really a good impetus to solve some problems.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:20:04] Yeah, Well, and one thing I’ll say, too, that’s a wasn’t a creation in space, but it definitely came from someone in the space industry. The Super Soaker was actually developed by a a former NASA fluid dynamic expert who was trying to create a more fun summer gun for his children.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:23] Now let’s talk a bit about the Levein’s center of innovation. How do they play in this ecosystem?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:20:30] Yes, So the Levein’s Center is one of our strategic partners, and we recently launched Level five Space Dock, which is one of their initiatives that we really want to connect the entrepreneurs with the Levein’s Center and have the Levein’s Center be this beacon of economic opportunity and and space opportunity within Broward County. But really looking at Florida more nationally and then globally as well. And so what we’ve established is a series of programing to help connect the entrepreneurs to the greater space ecosystem and train them for insertion and scalability. So we are going to be doing everything from very much space focused cohorts. So following their structure of their founders journey, which is very prosperous and very successful, already at the Levein’s Center, we created what I like to call a space wrapping on top of it. And so taking the structure, we added space business lessons to help entrepreneurs be able to find where the relevant insertion point is, figure out what their framework is. Figure out scalability. How do you think about partnership? How might you go about investment? And we have different programs designed for different maturity levels of companies as well, because some people are just thinking about the idea. Some people actually have a prototype. Going back to what we said earlier about the strategy of pivoting that they might want to maneuver into into the space industry. And so we really wanted to be able to meet the entrepreneurs with the right resources at the right time. And so we have our first cohort actually launching February 28th, which is the IDA cohort, and then the space incubate cohort is following with the start date of March six.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:22:15] And these cohorts are going to continue throughout this year. There’s going to be different versions of them and then into next year. And then we’re also going to be doing very different sort of space. Space events and space panels. And so we’re going to do various panels, one on space medicine. So how do you think about the future of medicine? How can industries help create this framework of what’s necessary for. For its growth and sustainment? We’re going to be looking at the industry of satellites, which really right now is one of the major backbones of the space ecosystem. And then also looking at a lot of these other far flung but relevant capabilities that are going to be necessary for the future of space. And so there really is something for everybody, and they have just been so wonderful. What I love about. John, who leads the team, is that he very much approaches problems like I do where nothing’s off the table. And so it very much has been this creative process to figure out how we can bring the most impact to the entrepreneurs they serve, but then also have the Leaven Center be this flagship for people within Broward County. But then also we want to get the word out so more people can take advantage of the services.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:26] So, Kelly, what do you need more of? How can we help you in Space Foundation?

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:23:33] That’s great. I appreciate that question, I would say. Just more people to take a chance on space. And what I mean by that is going back to a comment I meant earlier or I said earlier, rather, is that nobody thinks that space isn’t cool. The problem is, is a lot of people don’t recognize that their background, their skillset, their their capability, their technology fits within it. So they might write it off and just say, okay, well, I’m going to monitor space from a enthusiast point of view, but not actually figure out figure it out from a business point of view. And so I would encourage them to look at Space Commerce Institute, the entity that I run to learn about how to think about space and how we want folks to grow. And then for those in Broward County, definitely check out the level five space resources we provide, because as I mentioned, there really is something for everybody. I’m a firm believer that entrepreneurship is not a one size fits all. There are very unique challenges that each company has, and so we want to be able to serve them where they are in their particular journey and help them succeed.

Lee Kantor: [00:24:42] Right. But I think it’s so important to have somebody like you and the folks that live and to show people the way and help them connect dots where they might be the exact right person, but they’re just not seeing it. Or they think the timeline’s too far and they can’t play yet. And but somebody has to be there to kind of show them the path or at least show them that it is possible. And to at least expand your thinking into this realm, because without those types of partnerships and without those types of relationships, it’s going to take even longer. You’ll have to build them from scratch. And there’s already so many people doing so many amazing things here. It’s just a matter of them opening their mind and connecting some dots so that they can see what’s possible.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:25:29] Absolutely. And the point that you made is, is so spot on about people thinking that the opportunities are too far in the future. And one of the things that we really try to do is create a practical roadmap with very tangible elements and resources, because as you know, because you’ve worked with tons of entrepreneurs and businesses, is that even if something isn’t going to be possible as a business case for five years, there’s still things that you need to do now to prepare yourself for that. And so what I like to illuminate from a space perspective is being able to balance this altruism and excitement for where the future is going with real pragmatism for what’s going to create ROI now. But for these companies that may have a technology and capability that will be really relevant, let them know exactly when their insertion point is and what they need to do now in terms of establishing partnerships or potentially tweaking their tech development timeline, there are really critical things that they can do to prime the path so that when the opportunity is there, they’re ready to jump as opposed to waiting and then being a bit too late to the game. Spacex is really attracting a lot of people right now, which is very exciting. I always say there’s really no better time to become part of the space ecosystem. And so the more people that we can get to recognize that it should be part of their business path now, it will just serve them better for the opportunities to come.

Lee Kantor: [00:26:54] So if somebody wants to connect with you or somebody on the team, what is the coordinates? What’s the website? Our best way to learn more.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:27:01] Absolutely. I appreciate that. It is Space Foundation dot org slash CI that’ll take you directly to our Space Commerce Institute web page. And then you can you can browse content. We have programs and services that we offer and then we also have an element on there which is free content called the vector. And what the vector is, is I have a conversation every month with different individuals on topics, trends and inventions really driving the space ecosystem. So it’s one way to to help individuals to start to think about the opportunities. There’s also a form on there and it comes directly to my inbox. And so I invite everyone to to fill it out. Please connect. I really believe that, like one of the greatest joys of my life is seeing people succeed and seeing their ideas become a reality. And if I can play a small part in that and help them create a strategy around it, that’s really good for me.

Lee Kantor: [00:27:57] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:28:03] Well, thanks, Lee. And I think that these kind of conversations are really, really important, because for entrepreneurs, I’ve worked with entrepreneurs for a long time and businesses that are looking to scale and sometimes, you know, in the. Confronted with too many options, you sort of get analysis, paralysis. And so being able to actually break down where people should focus or even opportunities that they didn’t know were illuminated to them, I think is really important.

Lee Kantor: [00:28:32] Yeah. Something I heard a while ago was sometimes you need help, but sometimes you need a helper and you need someone to kind of be your Sherpa to guide you through some of these things that to that helper. It’s very obvious and clear, but to you it seems difficult or impossible. So to have a human being that you can interact with that can say, Hey, just tweak this thing a little and you’re you’re almost there. Like that’s that can make the difference between somebody taking action or not.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:29:04] Absolutely. And one of the things that I’ve really stressed with my team to and this is why I mentioned that the form submission comes straight to my inbox and my team’s is I was a consultant for seven years prior to joining the Space Foundation, and I very much believe in what you said is that it’s that human touch and the necessity to sometimes cut through the red tape and answer a question. And so for anyone who contacts us, we always, always respond, because I understand that it takes a big step to even reach out and ask for help. And if we can help illuminate an opportunity, point them in the right direction. I don’t like just responding with generic emails, and so I firmly believe that it’s important to offer that that warm hand and that warm guidance.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:49] Yeah, Well, thank you again for sharing your story.

Kelli Kedis Ogborn: [00:29:53] Thank you. I appreciate you having me on.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:54] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you next time on Innovation Radio.