Creative Strategist and Marketing Conceptualist Keith Rhys

Intro: [00:00:07] Welcome to Digital Marketing Done Right, a customer success spotlight from Rainmaker Digital Services and Business RadioX. We cover digital marketing success stories drawn from real Rainmaker platform clients and showcase how they use the Rainmaker platform to build their business. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:35] Lee Kantor here with David Brandon, another episode of Digital Marketing Done Right and this is going to be a good one. David, who do we got this week?

David Brandon: [00:00:44] Hey, Lee, we’ve got Keith Rhys here. So how’s it going?

Keith Rhys: [00:00:49] Good. Great.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:51] Keith, before we get too far into things, tell us a little bit about your work today, how you serving folks.

Keith Rhys: [00:00:57] Okay. So today, for the last 30 years or so, I’ve been a consultant with health practitioners and health coaches, and I just help them create platforms, seller books, great products, etcetera.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:10] So how did you get into this line of work? Were you always involved in this type of content creation?

Keith Rhys: [00:01:15] Well, way back when, in the 80s, when I graduated college, my mom had been a what was called in the 70s, a hippie doctor. You know, she used herbs right under the counter. And so I was really interested in alternative medicine. And it just so happened that a lot of alternative medicine companies in the 80s needed marketing help. And so out of college I just went down that track. I helped supplement companies market their products, and so I did that for about ten years. I was fortunate to work with a lot of start ups that sold lots of supplements, and so that’s how I got started in the industry. What what really turned my career around was when I realized what I enjoyed doing was working with the doctors and the formulators and the researchers, the introverts behind the scenes and helping them tell their stories.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:08] So did those people have something in common other than being introverts? Were there kind of a common thread that you were like, okay, these folks I can relate to, I can really help them articulate their message and get the word out.

Keith Rhys: [00:02:20] Yeah, most of them, what they have in common is what I call the anti entrepreneur. You know, most entrepreneurs have been I think this is changing now, but they’ve been portrayed as hustlers and go getters and extroverts and all the above. And all of these people, they were intuitive and empathic and caring, service oriented people, and that was the polar opposite. But what was interesting about them is most of them had ideas that were so complex, it was really hard for them to break them down and convey them to an audience in a way that the audience could accept or understand. Even so, that became my skill set, helping these people translate their often really complex messages for a mass audience.

David Brandon: [00:03:09] Do you feel like in some ways that they had do they have an advantage in some areas over kind of the traditional entrepreneur type, do you think?

Keith Rhys: [00:03:17] Well, that is a good question because yes, I think they do. And it’s by their very nature of the fact that they deal with complex ideas. They’re thinkers, they’re researchers. Here’s people often ask, all right, why do you specialize in alternative practitioners or integrative practitioners or holistic, whatever we want to call them? These are typically medical practitioners who have embraced extracurricular methodologies for helping people, and some of them are not mainstream. We know about a lot of them today. And so what they have that has made content marketing, especially work for this group of people, is they have extra ways, additional ways of talking about mainstream medicine that creates topic clusters in the old SEO language that really helps us market and sell their ideas. And so that’s why I like working with them. We work with a lot of doctors to medical doctors as well, selling their books, but I enjoy people with that extra added topic knowledge Domain experience. That makes sense.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:32] So, so how do you go about kind of getting all that gold that’s within them out of their head and onto either a computer screen or a book like you mentioned?

Keith Rhys: [00:04:43] Right. Um, back in the old days when clients first started coming to me, every single one of them thought that the way to launch their careers, the way to launch, to become an authority, was the old 70s model, you know, where a doctor would appear on Johnny Carson. Then the book’s a big hit or here on Oprah, right. And so that’s why we started focusing on helping them, quote unquote, market, right? Market sell land and Agent Land, a publisher for books. But what the secret was and that’s why we call it entrepreneurship, which is the digital digital landscape that surrounds that book. So the way we help these doctors is they think they have to put everything they know into a magnum opus that’s 800 pages. And then. Release it to the world and their job is done. We help them do is write that book one social post at a time, one article at a time, and then that thread, those patterns converge into maybe an eBook, and then with response from the audience. It eventually becomes a book. So for us, the landscape. Is first. The platform. The content.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:03] Yeah. And then you you helped them kind of gather these nuggets out in social posts. And then over time, they kind of grouped together in little kind of mini chapters. And then you organize it into a finished product of a book at some point.

Keith Rhys: [00:06:19] Yeah, I’ll give you a couple of examples. Um, one of our biggest successes was a doctor who embraced back when SEO worked really, really well. Now it’s really difficult for a lot of people, but back in the old days in the Wild West, when SEO worked wonderfully easy for everyone, at least for us. That’s how we got most of our people, you know, launched SEO. And what we do is we write 3 or 4 articles, place them on the site. If we were using social media, we’d put those nuggets on social media and then we’d watch for a response. And so that the the ideas don’t exist in a vacuum. And every book is better and every product we’ve released is better because of that, because the response from an audience, we’d send emails out and the audience would respond and say, What I really want is this. So from that, we’d create the first digital product and try that out, see if it had legs, see if it sold, if the digital product sold, then we’d keep building the list and that’s what would attract publishers. Publishers just wanted the audience. And so the bigger we could make the audience, the more the advance was. That probably sounds cold and calculating, but let’s that’s the way it was kind of still is. So did I answer your question or did I ramble?

Lee Kantor: [00:07:41] Well, I’m just trying to get understanding, like you’re using terms and I want to make sure the listener understands. Like when you say they respond like, what does a response mean? Is that them just like thumbs upping a post? Does it mean that they’re engaging in a conversation? Like what is? I’m just trying to kind of get granular.

Keith Rhys: [00:08:02] We are. What we look for is conversation, not just thumbs up, not just we look for. Yeah, those metrics are great. The thumbs up, the follows, the shares, all that good stuff. What we look for, especially email. Email is our primary marketing engine. We look for someone who takes the time to write a response, ask questions, curious, engaged with the ideas. Those are the best. Those are gold. And we used to get them as comments on blog posts No more. We now we focus on email, sometimes social media depending on the doctor. So that’s the process. We’re looking for engagement.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:44] Now when they’re starting out and they don’t have that large of a list like do, sometimes they get nothing and sometimes they get one. Like, is it possible to kind of it doesn’t matter. Like if they get one response, like you got to really kind of emphasize that and build on that.

Keith Rhys: [00:09:00] Yes, exactly. And we also have now that I’ve been doing this for 30 years, we have a network of former clients who now have huge lists and we share happily share with new and upcoming doctors so they have instant access to an audience. So that really helps.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:21] So that way they’re always getting some response.

Keith Rhys: [00:09:24] Right? It’s always about the feedback. And, you know, my former clients are more than happy to help the up and coming doctors as long as the ideas are interesting and fascinating and new and different and they usually are.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:37] Now, is there a kind of milestone metrics that you use, like what’s a minimum audience and what’s a minimum kind of response that you think is okay? That’s worth noting. That’s worth kind of building on.

Keith Rhys: [00:09:50] Oh, boy. It really depends. I’ll be honest. It depends on the it depends on the practitioner. A lot of practitioners that come through my course, for example, just have a virtual online practice. They’re a health coach or they’re a, you know, a psychologist who became a coach and they have a very small audience, very small reach. And so they’re not going to have many metrics, to be honest at first. Even if we help them out, give them access to an email list with a digital product we created. So it really depends, I’ll be honest, and it also depends on what we’re how we’re building their stack or are they already on social media? Do we need to build that, etcetera?

Lee Kantor: [00:10:32] Now when you build up to this book, is the book then becomes their main revenue stream or rarely?

Keith Rhys: [00:10:40] Rarely, if ever.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:41] So so that’s kind of a that’s a misconception about authorship, isn’t it?

Keith Rhys: [00:10:46] It is. It really is. It is. It rarely, if ever. I mean, I can count on we’ve had seven number one bestsellers, right? That’s what everybody seeks. But rarely has that become the income stream. Instead, it’s the digital products and the speaking engagements and the opportunities for working with other email lists. The book brings those opportunities, but the book rarely. I’ve had one book now that’s been in hardcover for going on 20 years and never has gone to paperback back. It’s a perennial bestseller, but that’s one book in 30 years.

David Brandon: [00:11:28] Do you do you feel like the book is more important for building authority? Do you feel like do you feel like paper builds more authority than online or is it equal or what’s how does that.

Keith Rhys: [00:11:41] It’s actually it’s been in someone’s feed or email box consistently over time. That’s what builds authority and trust and expertise. The book really is almost it’s become an on ramp to that. It becomes let’s offer the book as a way to get them on the list. Let’s offer the book as a premium to get them to enjoy the course.

David Brandon: [00:12:07] So you’re you’re kind of flipping the the old marketing paradigm.

Keith Rhys: [00:12:13] That’s right. And every once in a while we have someone who has a big contract with a big New York publisher, and they want to market like the old days where we, you know, do all the games, play all the tricks, pull out all the stops, you know, all of those you’ve you’ve seen how those launches, quote unquote, work, even though The New York Times is kind of onto all of them. But they really want to go old school. They really want that number one spot. And so we’ll do that with them. But at the same time, we’re also building the landscape, the content landscape around that. What I’m interested in, what they really are too, when they admit it is not just a number one launch, they really want a book with legs, a book that has influence and sells multiple copies every month for years. That’s when we have influence from a book.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:00] But isn’t the book just another kind of tool in the tool belt because you’re ultimately trying to build a community and these are all kind of assets in and around that? That’s right.

Keith Rhys: [00:13:12] Yes, that’s right. But in marketing, we need to work with what the prospect believes coming in. And still they believe when they come to see me that they have to start with a book. And so I had to write something that’s literally called Don’t Start with the Book.

Speaker5: [00:13:33] So you were.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:34] You were trying to manage their expectations from the beginning.

Speaker5: [00:13:36] Exactly. That’s right.

Keith Rhys: [00:13:38] But it’s the real hope. I mean, don’t we all? We want our authority to just be launched and then stay. We’re just an authority and an expert. Wow. Today, it doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to release that book in little increments over time, over and over and over again. And that’s why I like Instagram. Instagram is awesome right now for my audience. It’s where their people are. And the way we’re using it is is going gangbusters. As long as we also use it with email marketing and a platform where we can send people to buy stuff, clearly that’s what we’re doing.

David Brandon: [00:14:21] Do you do you tend to get much pushback on that sort of thinking? Because I know like you’re a consultant, you’re working with people who aren’t experts in marketing, but they have an idea of the way it’s supposed to work. Yeah. Do you get pushback? And if you do, how do you manage those expectations and help them to see the right way to go? Okay.

Keith Rhys: [00:14:40] Pushback against which part? I get pushback all the time. So which which pushback are we referring to, David?

David Brandon: [00:14:45] Specifically on like kind of old school versus new school way of doing things? The big book and the big like Flash as opposed to sort of that ongoing, consistent drip feed is more what I’m thinking.

Keith Rhys: [00:14:59] Well, since they’re the client, we will give them the launch they want as long as they also agree to play along with me and build the content around it. And if we can do that and agree, then old and new can get along. But there really is not. I’m it’s really amusing to me because I came up in the old days in the 80s pre-Internet and we’ve just replaced all the old tech with new tech, the glossy catalogs, you know, or just your shopping cart plug in. And all the mail we used to send out is just in your email box. And talk radio is the podcast. It’s the same conversation, it’s the same conversion, it’s the same, you know, relationship building, just a different medium.

David Brandon: [00:15:50] Ed and I were talking about that the other day. You know, the idea that like tactics and technology change, but people really don’t. They don’t, you know, stuff that was that worked 100 years ago. You know, you update the technology. It still works today.

Speaker5: [00:16:03] That’s right.

Keith Rhys: [00:16:04] Exactly.

Speaker5: [00:16:06] It does.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:06] But something that is different today is that there are a lot of this stuff is free and a lot of this stuff is there’s much more fragmentation in terms of attention. How do you kind of. Well, the while the principles might be the same, the the ability to get someone’s attention and keep it over time is a little more competitive nowadays, I think.

Keith Rhys: [00:16:30] Yeah, it is. And that’s why we niche so deeply in the beginning. Because every doctor I’ve worked with, we niche narrowly, narrowly and deeply in the beginning. We find something for them that they can own. And that’s how we first build their first platform and then they can branch out. But every doctor I can name that we’ve worked with started with a very, very narrow niche. And so you have to you must.

Speaker5: [00:16:59] Start with a niche.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:00] Talk about that exercise that you helped them get into a, you know, to own their kind of tiny slice of the universe. How do you help them identify what is that appropriate size niche and then is it big enough to at least get their focus for a period of time so they believe that it’s possible to build off of that?

Keith Rhys: [00:17:22] Okay. I’m trying to think of one of the one of the. Uh, techniques we use in the course. But what I like to have them focus on is every every expert wants to focus on how they do something. So like, for example, a famous example I always use is I had an acupuncturist from the UK who had this video on the front page of his site with him sticking needles in someone’s face, and that focused on how he achieved pain relief. But people were terrified of going to this guy. Right? And so what we do instead, of course, is we focus on why you’re doing what you’re doing, who it’s for and what the what problems you solve. And so all I ask people to do is just, okay, who are you serving? Name three related problems you solve that becomes the first niche. It’s just three problems and we build three pillars for those three problems. We test and see how they work. And then we rotate pillars. I use pillars because in the Rainmaker community anyway, it’s fairly common language, I think at least it used to be for categories along the top of the site, right?

Speaker5: [00:18:42] Yeah.

Keith Rhys: [00:18:43] And so their niche just becomes the problems they solve. It’s an easy way in because most people get so hung up on, Oh, I’ve got to have the right niche. The audience quickly tells us these two are boring. This one’s interesting. How can you reframe this one? And we just keep rotating. Eventually what we found was all five pillars or categories along the top of the site would be humming because we just watched with Heatmaps as people arrived to see which of those problems resonated with audiences. And we do the same thing on social media. So it’s a long way around of.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:25] Now you mentioned that Instagram is working well for your clients now. Can you talk about that a little bit? Like what makes that work well or what are you doing there that is so successful? Yeah, I’m ready.

Keith Rhys: [00:19:36] To give my big secret. So here we go. Because I guess not a lot of people know this, but long content, believe it or not, long form content is back and. It’s really quite amazing because Instagram wanted to be TikTok for a while, and so they thought they were going, maybe they still are and they were going to embrace the reels and the quick hits, the videos. But once my client started doing that, they just lost people lost all interest. And so what we found, Instagram has a feature called Carousels. Maybe you’re familiar with those. You know, they’re, you know, ten, ten screens of type of content. And we make the first two slides hooky and interesting and fascinating because that’s the way Instagram works. It’ll show the the the viewer of the slide, the first slide, the first time they see it and the second slide the next time they see that in their feed. And we have found that carousels are outperforming every other form we could possibly use, including video. Now, there’s a few people that are really great on video and that can add to it. But people, at least the people we attract, the people who are looking for health solutions, the people who are in pain, they’re looking for solutions. They want it to be able to remember it. They don’t want a video to just flash by. They want notes. They want to take screenshots of those carousels. And engagement has just gone through the roof once we started using carousels. So we use carousels to get people off of Instagram onto the email list and then we develop the relationship further with email. So that’s our strategy at the moment.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:20] So you use so you use Instagram not to sell them anything, but to get them on the list so that you can eventually sell them something.

Keith Rhys: [00:21:28] Yeah. And it’s been, it’s been really interesting. I don’t know how much you know about the health alternative health world and how controversial it can be. But there’s something called moderation online in social media where if you say something controversial, it doesn’t agree with the mainstream corporate. Stance on the issue, you’ll be moderated out of existence. And so I don’t want my people building a platform on Instagram. It’s not worth it. I had people during the big pandemic. Lose 300,000 followers overnight because they said something innocently they thought was just common sense. So moderation has been really interesting for us. And so what we prefer to do is every opportunity, get people off of social. Social is like, look at it like the Matrix, you know, the Matrix where, you know, the green figures are scrolling down the black screen endlessly, forever. That’s Instagram. And it’s not for selling. It’s for capturing interest. And we capture that with carousels and take them to the email.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:41] So what are some techniques you use to get them off of the platform onto your email?

Keith Rhys: [00:22:47] Well, if we’re being if we’ve been really smart, we’ve been paying attention to the topics that are resonating with people that people are, you know, engaging with. And comments are so amazing on Instagram. We love the comments. The comments tell us everything. They tell us why they like it, why they hate it, what they’re going to do with it. Are they understanding the concept? And the minute we get that data, then. We develop a free a free, a freebie like, you know, a a mini course or an eBook or something. The best premium we’ve had has been checklists. The shorter, the better. And so we offer those, you know, ten ways to know if X. Click. They go. They go to the site. The Rainmaker site and gather that e-book or checklist or mini course. And then they’re on the list.

Speaker5: [00:23:52] So. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Keith Rhys: [00:23:55] Okay. No, go ahead, David.

David Brandon: [00:23:57] I was going to say, you mentioned just a minute ago something that I wanted to to kind of come back to moderation and that effect on the people that you work with. Yeah. Being that you have a very specific market. What are some of the challenges and opportunities and things in that? Because a lot of people, like you said, have not necessarily engaged with that space. What is it like being in that space as a marketer?

Keith Rhys: [00:24:23] It’s really challenging and it’s not it hasn’t really changed and this is one of the benefits I think, of coming up with supplements in the 1980s, supplements are regulated, the labels are regulated by the FDA for obvious reasons. And so we had label restrictions and they extend to the catalogs we print and the mail pieces we’d send out, obviously. Right? So we became very, very, very good at creating content that didn’t get us in trouble. And nowadays, oh, these poor, younger doctors will just wander on to social media and start spouting off every everything they believe as of last week and lose their audiences. And so we have a course where we walk people through what we say online and what we say behind a paywall and why why that’s so necessary because it has been. I don’t know. I don’t know how to describe it. It’s been. Really difficult for. We had one doctor who lost 600,000 people. And that is something that’s hard to recover from because he hadn’t built anything other than social media. He didn’t have an email list. That’s dangerous. So that’s why we do it the way we do it now.

Lee Kantor: [00:25:45] Because of your background, you probably at a glance can tell where the edges are, where somebody, somebody new is just they don’t understand what they don’t understand.

Keith Rhys: [00:25:56] That’s right. Yeah. I mean, let’s be honest. It’s always been about the advertisers. Let’s call it the advertisers, whether they’re advertising on social media or not. Right. They have the cash. And so the advertisers in our case are, well, you know, pharma and they’re touchy and they don’t like people saying bad things about their products. I don’t blame them. And we had the same problem in the 80s. We’d do radio, we’d do TV, and the advertiser would say, You can’t say that there are advertiser. And so I don’t see this as necessarily censorship or it’s, you know, the evil big foot of government or any of that stuff. I see it as the usual same old thing. It’s always been advertisers don’t like. People saying bad things about their product. So let’s just play that game. Let’s play along. And that’s what we do.

Lee Kantor: [00:26:48] Right. And there’s always parameters. I mean, this is just becomes another parameter.

Keith Rhys: [00:26:52] Oh yeah. There’s very clear parameters sometimes. Lately they’re constantly changing the restrictions and you don’t know why you get kicked off. So it is kind of a wild West out there right now. Um, as we found with Twitter. But. And the Twitter files, if you know about that.

Speaker5: [00:27:10] Sure.

Lee Kantor: [00:27:11] Now, are are the things that you’re sharing today for your clients, is that what you’re doing to get clients or are you at a stage right now that people know who you are and they’re going to you to solve their marketing problem?

Keith Rhys: [00:27:23] We’re fortunate. We you know, we’re primarily word of mouth from clients now and we stay pretty busy. My favorite form of marketing is email. It always has been. And, you know, we went through a period where people when Facebook first started up where everybody was claiming email was dead. You remember that. And email is still ten x for us. Anything we could do on Facebook or Instagram, it’s still ten x. We still sell most of our product through email. And my model is pretty simple. I build the email lists with my clients and then we teach their email list how to do the same thing. And so my clients will recommend me to their list and we sell the course to them. And it just is a virtuous cycle. And I’ve done that with all my clients.

Speaker5: [00:28:18] See. Yeah.

David Brandon: [00:28:20] You mentioned email as being something that’s been really, really effective for you. That’s obviously been around for a long, long time. As you said, what about moving forward? What are some of the stuff that you’re really excited about, you know, in the near term and the future for your particular market as far as tactics, techniques, platforms, media?

Keith Rhys: [00:28:42] Okay. Well, that’s a good question and I haven’t thought about that. I like focusing on what’s working now, but I can tell you what I am wary of. And can I mention product names on here? Is that okay or is that bad? You know, like Slack or or substack or. Or medium.

Speaker5: [00:29:02] Whatever should be fine. Yeah, you’re good. Okay, good.

Keith Rhys: [00:29:05] So I what really is kind of annoying me right now is let’s take Substack. It’s the big kid on the block at the moment. A lot of people think it’s going to be easier to attract an audience if they throw their content onto an email. You know, it’s just a typical blog platform that sends out an email, its PR blitz. It’s what Seth Godin has been doing for 40 years or whatever. Yeah, right. So they’re putting it on there thinking, believing that somehow that will make a difference and help them find their audience. And I can’t see any difference with these platforms than a typical WordPress stack that we use. So I think there’s going to be a lot more of that coming because every tech provider, not rainmaker, but most of them want to create a walled garden of exclusives that you can’t leave ever. So that is what I’m warning against as of the future for my clients is keep it simple, keep it clean, keep it flexible. WordPress stack.

David Brandon: [00:30:15] Well, I think that almost gets back to kind of the point you were making earlier about social media that rented versus owned space. Yes. You know where you’re at, you’re beholden to something that you don’t control.

Keith Rhys: [00:30:29] Exactly. Yeah. And you know, Brian Clark talked about that a lot way back in the day. And I agree with that 100%. And that’s what we found out during the pandemic. All those rented spaces where you did not own your audience suddenly disappeared out from under you. I mean, how scary is that? So that’s why I love the simple minimum viable website, if you can call it that. You only have to have six pages. And six pages and about page three articles a work with me, page a home page. Let’s get on social media. Let’s get you an audience, get you an email list, and then you own that platform for now anyway.

Lee Kantor: [00:31:13] And, you know, it’s what they say. If something’s free, then you’re the product. So, I mean.

Speaker5: [00:31:18] Exactly. That’s true. That’s really true.

Lee Kantor: [00:31:21] Those platforms are just taking advantage of that.

Speaker5: [00:31:24] Yeah.

Keith Rhys: [00:31:25] And who can blame them, really? I mean, it’s a great model for them.

Lee Kantor: [00:31:30] So now what could we be doing for you? How can we help you?

Speaker5: [00:31:34] What do you mean.

Lee Kantor: [00:31:35] How can we help you? What do you need more of?

Speaker5: [00:31:39] Um. Let’s see. That’s an.

Keith Rhys: [00:31:42] Unexpected question. You mean from Rainmaker?

Speaker6: [00:31:46] Yeah.

Lee Kantor: [00:31:46] I mean from your business. What can the audience do to help? Keith Reese. Have all of his dreams come true?

Keith Rhys: [00:31:57] Go to Keith Rescom and join my email list. How about that?

Lee Kantor: [00:32:01] And can you spell that? Because for folks.

Speaker5: [00:32:04] Yes, it.

Keith Rhys: [00:32:05] Is unusual. It’s k e r h y s.

Speaker5: [00:32:11] Heath Reese.

Lee Kantor: [00:32:13] If they go to Keith Rescom, they can get some information. They can learn more about your philosophy and your practice.

Speaker5: [00:32:20] Yeah, we have a.

Keith Rhys: [00:32:21] New a new freemium coming out called Parallel Practice. And it’s been so fun because what we do is all of our service providers are so busy providing services, they don’t have time to market the thing, right? So we built a simple model that’s four steps that they implement in parallel to their service practice. And we’ve been testing it and with 200 health coaches and it’s been spectacular. So that’s what they get when they go over to Keith Rescom.

Lee Kantor: [00:32:55] And then your ideal prospect is somebody that is a health practitioner that wants to expand their practice in into the area of content creation and then create additional revenue streams through content and a variety of ways.

Keith Rhys: [00:33:13] Yes, that’s typically my real dream. Clients are those who desperately want to get something out into the world that they care about deeply. And they want they’re not really interested in being seen as an expert or an authority necessarily, but they believe so passionately in something they’ve researched or found or discovered with patients that they have to get it out there. They’re my favorite clients, but we help anyone who is in the wellness space because they need our help getting being. I like to say we help them translate their big ideas into common language. So that’s what we help them do.

Lee Kantor: [00:33:54] And then are they are they typically are they coming to you first before they’ve tried? Or have they tried and become frustrated and are at their wits end and say, maybe I’ll hang out with Keith for a while?

Speaker5: [00:34:06] Is this.

Keith Rhys: [00:34:06] Just me? You guys tell me. But no. Almost every single one of my clients have tried every single tactic and, you know, platform and everything and failed miserably. And then after they spent all their money, they come to us. And so that’s typically the way it’s been for us. Now, the reason I launched the course six years ago, Evergreen Authority, was because I wanted to build more clients who came up the right way with the right foundation, the right marketing foundation. That’s a four month course, right? So that was the initial idea. We put 2000 people through there and they go through the whole course. And what’s been great about that is I create my own clients. They’re already ready to engage and just hit the ground running because they know the principles of content marketing. So that’s been our strategy.

Lee Kantor: [00:34:58] Well, Keith, thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Speaker5: [00:35:03] Hey, thank you.

Keith Rhys: [00:35:04] We appreciate it. David.

Lee Kantor: [00:35:05] Yeah. All right. This Lee Kantor for David Brandon. We will see you all next time on digital marketing done right?