Raj Choudhury with Alloy and Brooke MacLean with Marketwake

Intro: [00:00:11] Coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for another episode of Tech Talk with your host, Joey Kline.

Joey Kline: [00:00:22] Welcome to the latest episode of Tech Talk, and we have two fantastic executives for you to talk to today of Atlanta based companies. First, we’re going to talk to Raj Choudhury of Alloy.

Raj Choudhury: [00:00:37] Hello. How’s things?

Joey Kline: [00:00:38] Doing well. Looking forward to chatting. And then we’re going to chat with Brooke MacLean of Marketwake, CEO and founder. How are you, Brooke?

Brooke MacLean: [00:00:45] Doing great. Thrilled to be here okay.

Joey Kline: [00:00:48] All right. We’re going to go alphabetical as normal. So we are going to start with Raj. Raj, how are you doing today? Oh, not too bad.

Raj Choudhury: [00:00:53] You know, getting through the lovely weather of the weekend. It’s great.

Joey Kline: [00:00:56] Was it was it lovely or do you have allergies?

Raj Choudhury: [00:00:59] I have allergies, but I found the secret ingredient of the right kind of, uh, allergy meds. So I’m good.

Joey Kline: [00:01:06] Just like a whole thing of Claritin crushed up into anything.

Raj Choudhury: [00:01:10] That works, right?

Joey Kline: [00:01:10] Yeah. That’s right. Yeah, I hear you. It’s about survival. So. So let’s talk alloy. So we want to get into obviously what alloy does. And you know how it’s growing here in Atlanta. But a little background on yourself and how you got to alloy.

Raj Choudhury: [00:01:28] Sure sure. So um I accidentally started an agency I’ll say that, um, I was, uh, you know, as, as most folks sometimes do after after school, I ended up traveling around the world and, uh, kind of fell into web design and ended up starting my first agency with my old college roommate, a guy called Jeff Hillmyer, um, out of Toronto, Canada, and he was actually still in his dorm room in Charlotte, North Carolina. And we started, uh, spun, uh, spun logic and, uh, kind of winged it, if you will, uh, grew the agency pretty well. We were based out of Atlanta. That’s how I ended up here in Atlanta. Um, and then just, you know, did did great work, did just had a fantastic team. Uh, we exited that business and then, uh, went into another venture that pushed into it, which was called engage. Um, and then from there sold into Publicis. So I kind of started getting a history of, um, you know, a lot of kind of M&A building up units and selling the units and so forth. So my background is actually creative, which is kind of odd. So I moved from creative to really operating units and moved much more into the finance side of things. So, uh, you know, fast forward, um, you know, built up and sold four units. Um, I really enjoy building up teams. Um, love the work still. Um, and just love, uh, the people aspect of, of, uh, agencies and the culture that comes with it.

Joey Kline: [00:03:00] So. So why do it again? What’s the or is it, uh, you don’t have hobbies at this point. Addicted. What’s what’s the what’s the drive? Um, for doing this with alloy. And why do you think alloy kind of fills a niche that your other ventures did not.

Raj Choudhury: [00:03:16] Yeah. So every time I’ve gone into a venture, it’s trying to create, um, an agency unit that’s, uh, that perhaps, you know, the market’s underserving or that there’s an area that, um, that can, um, you can, can really take advantage of. So, uh, as I was thinking through my, you know, my next adventure, if you will. Um, and between everything I do, sabbaticals, by the way, which is also a great kind of break point between them, but, um, I started thinking about, um, the type of marketing that goes on with technology firms and really more so the, the nature of transactional marketing versus large brand creative marketing that is lacking with a lot of kind of B2B marketing. And so we seek out to basically create a unit to tackle larger concept ideas as opposed to just transactional marketing, which is very, very typical, especially in the in the tech sector. So alloy is built around, um, really bringing together best in class agencies. So we acquire, uh, units, uh, we put them together into the alloy brand. Um, and then we stitch up the capabilities to basically push into technology sector primarily, but also large scale nonprofits, um, and really through ideation. So we can bring storytelling, uh, to precision execution throughout. So kind of parts, if you will.

Joey Kline: [00:04:38] Why, on the surface, one might look at this focus on technology companies and nonprofits and think that there’s not much overlap there. Why the what what is the relationship, if any, between those two industries, or at least in terms of serving that clientele?

Raj Choudhury: [00:04:55] Yeah. So the technology sector moves extremely fast. So that’s why we love it. Right? It’s it’s not stagnant. It’s it’s constantly being challenged. So you know, as a brand architect within the alloy side of things, we’re out to disrupt the agency industry itself. Uh, both the com side of things as well as the digital side, which typically don’t marry up often very well. Um, so from a disruption standpoint, we’re trying to also disrupt how agencies operate. And technology brands tend to allow you to experiment a lot more fluidly than say, you know, say retail or, um, tourism or, you know, manufacturing as an example. Right? Those will be kind of tried and true, hard to kind of really push new concepts and ideas. So that allows us to basically really reinvent how we work and how we, uh, work with those clients. And then similarly on the, on the large scale, uh, nonprofits, that’s that’s to be honest, we can take a lot of those kind of principles and drive it into the nonprofits, which tend not to innovate that often, but they their dollars have to go extremely far, you know. Um, and so from that perspective, there’s a tie in from how we enable experiences and technology and PR uh, but also from a purpose standpoint, it’s also great for our employees. So, you know, culture is a huge component of any agency unit. So, uh, for us, those are purpose driven, uh, elements. And that the work that’s, that’s meaningful, all work is meaningful. But sometimes when you’re doing some of the nonprofit work, it’s very meaningful for, uh, employees. And they enjoy that side of things. Oh, look.

Joey Kline: [00:06:37] I can understand that, right? You know, we we we do our best to, uh, give 110% to all of our clients. But not all projects are created equal in terms of just the internal passion that you might bring to the particular cause.

Raj Choudhury: [00:06:51] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And especially in local markets where we operate, whether it’s New Orleans or Atlanta, uh, there are certain things that, you know, matter much more to to folks locally.

Joey Kline: [00:07:01] Sure. You want to do good work. You also want to be a good corporate citizen. Absolutely. Um, your personal background is actually of particular interest to me just because I feel. Well, look, uh, it’s a, you know, somewhat of a, um, uh, you know, trite statement that our background, of course, influences how we act in the world. But you have a particularly interesting one that I’d be curious if you’ve, I don’t know, subconsciously or consciously kind of drawn any parallels or lessons that have helped you in your professional life.

Raj Choudhury: [00:07:30] Yeah. I mean, you know, so first off, I’m a, you know, a bit of a model of the world, right? As you know, uh, you know, so born in East Africa, grew up in London, then traveled everywhere. Right. And so, um, I’ve also, um, you know, got to realize that, um, you know, the people side of the business matters way more than the money side of the business. Um, that’s, you know, you build a team that fights together, um, that, um, a culturally bound together. You can do some great work. And ultimately, if you do great work, you can build a successful business if you just focus on the numbers on its own. Um, it’s really not enough to move the needle. Um, so a lot of my parallels around, um, the communities I’ve lived in, um, and Atlanta has become home to that, but it’s also the teams that we pull together and how we kind of interact socially. Uh, so, uh, I kind of work in the mantra of kind of work hard, you know, play hard side of things and, and very, very in tune to that. Within kind of the service industry, you work hard for your clients, you make them shine, you do great work, and you’ll get rewarded as a result. And so that kind of prevails in every unit that we, we work with. Um, and the types of units that we try and pull into, into the alloy platform.

Joey Kline: [00:08:51] You talked about people and hopefully it’s not it’s not necessarily a groundbreaking statement, right. That the people are the what matter most in business. You would you would hope that any good leader after a, you know, a certain period of time generally recognizes that because the people are what make the money and what make the organization actually go, um, you have, of course, at this point recruited for many, many different jobs across a number of different agencies. And I’m curious if you have any, um, best practices just seems to corporate of a firm. But any particular mantra or guiding principles that you go by when you’re looking at candidates?

Raj Choudhury: [00:09:33] Yeah. I mean, there’s a few. Right. Um, and they’re very based on roles, obviously, but in. In general, I’d say that, you know. Especially in our industry. You know, if you don’t have a natural ability to, um, want to learn or aren’t afraid to run into the fire, you know, it’s hard for you to survive in the agency world. You’ve got to be able to do things other people haven’t done before. And so that kind of natural learning ability and curiosity and ability to not be afraid of the unknown. So that’s one aspect. The second, you know, I think I may have mentioned this to you, but I always ask a question in all the interviews, which is, you know, what is on your bucket list, right? And that’s always an indication of the person’s true passions and character. Right? If it’s something to do with, um, you know, something coal based or perhaps travel or a hobby or something like that, you know, that’s truly a passion. If it’s around, I want to buy a sports car or I want to buy a yacht, that typically not going to work well within alloy because they’re money driven and their mindset as opposed to purpose driven.

Joey Kline: [00:10:41] I think that that is. In a in a universe now in which I feel like we have somewhat of a split workforce, we have a workforce that I think some of whom want to be around people and grow, and some of whom want to sit behind a computer and find the easy way out. And when you choose the latter path, all you’re really getting out of your employer is money. And when all you’re getting out of your employer is money, it makes it much easier to jump to something else. And so it I think that you just you eventually see the difference. Because if all you’re getting is money, that is not going to fulfill you long terme. Exactly. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t be compensated fairly, but if that’s literally all it is, there’s just not going to be anything keeping you being that much loyal to that organization.

Raj Choudhury: [00:11:33] No, I agree, I mean, I think ultimately, you know, you do the best work when you’re around the best people and, um, you know, the best people get the best work out of you. Uh, and it’s, it’s, I think people who want to do great work, um, there’s a difference between doing great work and just getting a paycheck.

Joey Kline: [00:11:51] That is that is correct. And and yes, I think that your point about just being around the right people, I mean, that’s life, really. You are a you are a sum of the people with whom you spend the most time. And I forget who said this or if it was even someone notable, but said, I never want to be the the most attractive or wealthiest person in the room. I was like, I like that because, you know, you should have people around you that are challenging you in some way, shape or form.

Raj Choudhury: [00:12:17] Yeah, and even even my own role. Right. I don’t want to be the only person thinking about things. I want to be challenged, and I want to have incredible leaders around me who are pushing me as well.

Joey Kline: [00:12:29] So. So let’s talk about alloy a bit more. Granularly you guys had some big news in the last couple of weeks.

Raj Choudhury: [00:12:34] Yeah. So, um, you know, we’ve, uh, we’ve had actually a number of just different kind of, uh, announcements. But the biggest one is that we moved, we got a great investment from the purpose Group, which is an investment firm, actually, actually, ironically, uh, started by, um, Jeff Helmer and David Cummings. Uh, Jeff was my old roommate, as I said. And, David, um, we’ve all known each other for a while, and I’m sure a lot of the listeners probably know David Cummings. Uh, so it’s a great infusion of capital into alloy. It allows us to, uh, kind of continue, um, kind of our aggressive M&A strategy, uh, that we’ve been using, obviously, we’re quite a unit in 2022, which was alpl, which is kind of best in class tech tech PR firm. And then last year we acquired um, uh, Narwhal Digital, um, which is just a fantastic kind of brand creative shop. Um, so we’ll be looking to continue that kind of path, um, over the years. So we’ll be using, um, you know, capital from the purpose group to kind of fuel alloy’s, uh, M&A growth strategy around it. So it’s also the other side of things is it’s great to be back in business with, uh, with Jeff and and David. Um, I have a ton of respect for those guys. Um, you know, they’re extremely influential in, uh, in our industry as well, both on the tech side of things as well as on the on the marketing side of things. So on a personal level, that’s that’s fantastic. And, um, I know my leadership team is, is kind of like, uh, pumped around that as well. Yeah.

Joey Kline: [00:14:04] That’s that’s big. Um, you know, I find it interesting when I talk to organizations who are a big part of their growth is, um, you know, M&A strategy because, you know, yes, there’s a technological fit. But at the end of the day, as we’ve been talking about, I think as big or a bigger piece in that is a cultural fit as well. And I am curious kind of how you go about sourcing opportunities and sussing out does it fit both of those buckets?

Raj Choudhury: [00:14:32] Yeah. I mean, to be honest, the the most important site is the cultural fit, right? Um, and unfortunately, I think in a lot of M&A, uh, a lot of people focus on the financials, right, and try and show that there’s a cross-sell element and the economics are going to make sense. Yes, the economics have to make sense. But if you don’t nail the people side of things, then you really don’t have an asset, uh, that you can kind of grow out out through. So, um, yeah, we, we look at, uh, we look at shoring up capabilities, but really through talent. Um, so when we’re looking at units, we’re looking at from a capability standpoint where we need to basically own the end to end side of things. So we already own, um, I’d say the PL com side of things to the brand and KCS side of things. So, uh, we’ll be looking to kind of shore up other elements, whether it’s on the data side of things or the martech side of things. So those are the next targets or even just amplifying existing capabilities. But first and foremost, we’re looking at, um, you know, great founders, um, great teams, um, and great work, um, that that matters most. The numbers themselves matter less to us, uh, in honesty, because we bring units in. To our platform and we already have the infrastructure in place, both on the financial side, the HR side, um, you know, the sales and marketing side and the workflow infrastructure side of things. So that’s less of a concern. So we’re not necessarily looking at units to bring those capabilities. We’re just really looking at fantastic talent and folks who want to take it to the next level within our platform.

Joey Kline: [00:16:04] So I know AR, PR is a local Atlanta firm. Was I forget his Narwal local or. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Raj Choudhury: [00:16:10] So actually LPL was out of both Atlanta and New Orleans. That’s kind of how we have our footing in New Orleans. And um, Norwell was actually here in Atlanta. Um, you know, it just happened that both were in Atlanta. We weren’t necessarily sourcing in Atlanta. Uh, but it works out sometimes, you know, you know, the entrepreneurs. Uh, so that brings a level of trust. Uh, and then sometimes doing acquisitions, you you don’t know what you’re getting until you close. Um, but you know, when, when we, we bring a unit in, we’re, we’re sourcing anywhere from 60 to 75 companies. Um, you know, initially just to bring it down to the right fit and make sure that the people side of things. And then when we integrate, we’re focusing right off the bat on cultural integration. That’s that’s the primary focus. And then we move into the the financials. Okay.

Joey Kline: [00:16:59] So I think you probably answered my question. Is this a national or regional strategy. It sounds like this is national. If it if it’s in my own backyard, so be it. But it doesn’t have to be.

Raj Choudhury: [00:17:08] That’s right. Yeah. I mean our workforce has changed changed quite a bit. That’s right from the pandemic side of things. So the centralized office strategy isn’t isn’t the strategy anymore. Um, it’s really finding the best talent and the best work, um, regardless of location, you know, so we’re we’re open to all locations.

Joey Kline: [00:17:24] Is there a certain target that you have in terms of acquisitions per year or. It’s. Yeah.

Raj Choudhury: [00:17:30] Yeah. So, you know, the hardest thing in acquisition is there’s there’s teams that can get acquired and then there’s teams that know how to acquire. And so we’re targeting one a year right now for the next couple of years. And then um, as the team is used to that pattern of acquiring we’re moving to two a year. Um, so that’s, that’s the general plan. So we’ll stay fairly aggressive in the marketplace within that. But um, the harder challenge obviously is, is bringing in a unit, making sure that, you know, our management team is set up for it. Our systems are set up for it. We can we can, you know, culturally integrate quickly. We can culturally, um, you know, move through and grow the, you know, this hub because every single unit has a different, you know, DNA and different culture. So you don’t want to you’re buying something that’s special. And so you don’t want to ruin that. So you want to add to it.

Joey Kline: [00:18:24] That’s right. Um, you know, you’ve done this a couple of times now. And so I’m curious, as you have really integrated your experience into alloy, what what have you found? What would you I guess it’s sort of two sides of the same coin. It’s have you learned something that you would go back and tell your younger self, or have you taken experiences that were maybe fumbles in the past that you have corrected this time around?

Raj Choudhury: [00:18:51] Well, I think the biggest aspect is, um, you know, a lot of deals are done based on numbers, right? And, um, you know, what I found is and especially on the private because I came from the private equity side of things. Right. And so that’s the basis of, of a lot of deals. Um, so the numbers matter. It’s not that they don’t matter. Um, but I truly believe that there’s an element of understanding the capabilities. You’re, you’re adding to the team and understanding the threats to both teams and openly talking about it. And so we prescribe to a very kind of open management, um, system. So when we’re going through that side of things, even through, um, kind of the honeymoon phase, if you will, the pre diligence side of things, we’re very open to what’s going to happen. So, uh, folks understand their roles, you know, what’s going to happen, which teams are getting integrated, which ones are standalone and so forth. So even through the pre diligence period, I found in the past where we’ve moved fast through the financials and then created an integration plan after the fact. Um, and that’s not always the best thing. Sometimes you have to start the integration plans actually in pre diligence. So that’s one one big aspect. The other is not to overthink a deal. Right. Um you can over try and correct to mitigate risk. Um and just kind of cycle through way too much time and effort on something that probably isn’t going to be a big deal. Um, and so I’ve learned over the years that, you know, yes, you’re trying to mitigate risk, but you’re never going to be able to mitigate all risk.

Joey Kline: [00:20:32] Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That’s right. Yeah. Okay. Well, that that is all super exciting. Raj, if someone wants to learn a little bit more about alloy, where would they go? How do they get in touch with you? Yeah, absolutely.

Raj Choudhury: [00:20:43] So alloycrew.com is our website. You can certainly go there. Check out our work. Check out our people. Um, you know, the different types of experiences and certainly find us on LinkedIn again, Alloy Crew or Instagram or anything like that. For me personally, you can find me on LinkedIn. That’s probably the easiest place, just Raj Chowdhury, uh, there’s I think two of us out there, but, uh, one’s a Harvard professor. He’s doing fantastic. Um, and then, uh, there’s me.

Joey Kline: [00:21:12] Do you guys do you guys ever get each other’s emails?

Raj Choudhury: [00:21:14] You know, I don’t, but people mistake me for him because he talks a lot about his, uh, interesting professor who talks about work culture and, uh, uh, you know, the changes in and work behavior that’s happened, you know, since the pandemic, certainly. But office culture to work at home. So people think sometimes that I’ve written those papers and I’m like, no, no, no, this guy is way smarter than me. So yeah, but I share similar philosophies so that people mistake.

Joey Kline: [00:21:42] It sounds like there are worse people to be mistaken for.

Raj Choudhury: [00:21:44] Exactly.

Joey Kline: [00:21:45] Yeah. Great. All right. Well, Raj, thanks a lot for sharing the experience, I appreciate it. Yeah. Brooke, how are we doing?

Brooke MacLean: [00:21:50] Doing great.

Joey Kline: [00:21:51] Yeah.

Brooke MacLean: [00:21:52] Loved listening. Fantastic story.

Joey Kline: [00:21:56] Well, I think I mean, you know, look, the reason we don’t have anyone on here who’s, who’s a dud in terms of storytelling. So it’s true. The goal is.

Brooke MacLean: [00:22:04] You filter well.

Joey Kline: [00:22:05] Well, you know, we want to make this interesting. So speaking of stories, you are the founder and CEO of Marketwake.

Brooke MacLean: [00:22:14] Yes, that is correct.

Joey Kline: [00:22:16] And you had you have had entrepreneurial experience in the past. Right. But I believe this is kind of your first. First venture of your own in terms of like, full founder.

Brooke MacLean: [00:22:28] That’s true. It’s true. Well, it’s funny listening to your story because we’ve crossed over. My original entry into the startup world was actually with David Cummings also. So fantastic. Congratulations. There I was working for with him on one of his companies for a while, ended up becoming the CEO for a time and learned so much. It was it was one of those phases I had started. Marketwake came back to be the CEO of the company while it was undergoing a pivot. I say all the time I would never do both again at the same time, but I would never change the fact that I did because of how much I learned and what I can now apply to Market Week.

Joey Kline: [00:23:08] That’s right. I think that, you know, when people ask you like, do you have regrets? Would you change anything? It’s like, well, if you’re generally happy with where you are, you can’t change a thing because that one flap of the butterfly then changes your present as well.

Brooke MacLean: [00:23:21] Absolutely. And it was interesting doing software and services at the same time. Right. So it was they’re very different ways that you run both companies. And the crash course in software was extensive working with investors, building a product, having CTO, doing sales, transferring everything from a previous version into what it became while trying to build behind the scenes the soft, the services side. Because I knew at the end of the day, that’s where I would go back to once we got it to a stable place. And now fast forward six, seven years later, we just acquired a software company Punch List. And so now I’m back and managing software and services at the same time. So it is funny how that happens. You think, wow, that was really, really hard. And all it is, is just preparing you for a later date.

Joey Kline: [00:24:14] David Cummings does seem to touch all things Atlanta. He does companies for you too. And of course, I was touring his new real estate acquisition the other day. And um, we I think Atlanta has always had good boosters, but I think that it certainly in the past decade, decade and a half, we have a group of kind of new executives that have experienced success that are really giving back in a really amazing way. I agree. Um, so so let’s talk about why you went back to the services side of things. What was it that drew you to that part of the industry?

Brooke MacLean: [00:24:53] I love the energy of the services. I think that in order and Raj alluded to this a little bit, you have to have the ability to work with a lot of different people, a lot of different industries and retain. A great deal of information simultaneously. So for those of us who are fast paced, we like learning a lot. And even outside of work, those of us who are excited and not overwhelmed by the rush of tight deadlines, I think services is an unbelievably powerful outlet for this type of person, and it is not for everyone. There are a lot of people who prefer the brand side, where there’s a singular focus and singular product and singular aspect to their role. We’re on the services side, the agency side, you where a lot of different hats. You’re working with, a lot of different team members, lots of different personalities. And I think that for those of us who are energized by that and not overwhelmed by that, it’s just a beautiful industry to work within.

Joey Kline: [00:25:55] Okay, for the uninitiated out there, talk about the very basic differences between the services side and the brand side of things and what you have chosen to specialize in at Market Week?

Brooke MacLean: [00:26:08] Absolutely. Market week. We specialize in two distinct areas. One is campaign strategy and the other is performance marketing. The campaign strategy comes in and figuring out what does a client have to say, what is important about it, and how are we going to roll that out into the masses. The performance side of what we do is really the channel execution. And a lot of a lot of companies come to us and they’re very interested in a specific channel, let’s say it’s paid media or SEO or content creation. And that’s amazing. Absolutely. We can step in and support them in a singular channel. Oftentimes, though, we have to back up and say, what are we saying to the world through that channel? That’s just a means to the end. If we were to back up a little bit and say, what is your story and is it resonating with your audience, that’s where the campaign strategy comes into play. And sometimes campaign strategy takes the entire brand into consideration, and sometimes it is more of, in which case an evergreen campaign. Sure. Other times it comes in form of hey, what’s going to be entertaining? We live in a very high demand, high frequency world right now. There’s a lot of news and content and videos and what is going to be entertaining and really cut through, whether that is a B2B client or a B2C client. It really comes down to the same thing. What are we saying? And then where are we going to say it? The brand side. When I’m referring to the brand side that is a client, uh, those are any company that we work with. Typically they have a singular product, um, sometimes singular service. But oftentimes those brands are very large, sweeping known companies, household names.

Joey Kline: [00:27:49] Sure. Okay. All right. That, that I think that helps delineate. So do you I think we talk a lot about people on this podcast. Okay. For for good reason. Um, I’m trying to think of another industry in which the talent has to be so up to date and ever learning on different forms of technology, communication and strategy. Uh, I’m having a hard time even thinking of one that surpasses.

Brooke MacLean: [00:28:19] If you find one, let me know. Yeah, because that’ll be our new hiring pool. Right?

Joey Kline: [00:28:23] Right. Um. It is. Look, you need to be on your toes in every industry, I think, to be the best professional that you can be. But in your world, it is so ever changing. So where I’m getting to is, do you have do you hire for specific capabilities like you mentioned, campaign versus performance strategy. Right. Do you hire people that are better at some type of services work than the other, or are you are you saying, look, we are a nimble, small, growing organization. You’ve got to be able to do all of this if you want to rise up and be on this team.

Brooke MacLean: [00:28:58] We very much lean into. We’re a little over 60 full time people now, so we’ve very much lean into specialty. We used to be the jack of all trades, where you have to know a little bit about it all, and you do still have to have a working knowledge of all of it. But there is no way that someone who is excellent at paid media can also be excellent at creative. Those are very different skill sets, so we really look for people who want to be a craftsman, honestly, in the skill that they bring to the table. Now, does that mean if we find incredible talent that we’re going to pass them by? No. I think that there’s an ability to train people and really find what they’re best at. But we are at the point of looking at specialists over generalists. Okay.

Joey Kline: [00:29:42] Do you think that that sets you apart from maybe your competitors, or is that a strategy that most executives have kind of narrowed in on?

Brooke MacLean: [00:29:52] Um, both. And yeah, it does. It depends on the size, the scale and then really what the expertise is. For instance, our account manager is a lot of times, uh, agencies use account managers is really the, the front lines and means of communication. Our account managers, their strategists, they’re the ones who have experience ideally in-house, somewhere on brand side, who know what it’s like to answer to investors, to answer to board members, to answer to an executive team, to have to work with sales and customer success. They have that working knowledge. And so when they come to be an account manager on our side, it’s not just agency experience that they’re bringing to the table, it’s empathy to our own clients. And that has been astronomical in our growth.

Joey Kline: [00:30:38] Sure. I mean, people want to work with people that they like. They do. You know, it’s look, obviously you the the price of entry as you have to be incredible at what you do. But beyond that, it’s um, it’s actually somewhat freeing, assuming that you’re a nice, interesting person that likes other people. How much? Just you and your own personality, um, can really drive success and retention of clientele.

Brooke MacLean: [00:31:04] Amen there. And also, there’s so much of just business professionalism that we hide behind of. We’re supposed to present something a certain way. And here are the numbers. And here’s how we’re going to tell that story. And and you lose so much by I call it the theatrics of the presentation, because there is a level of dissociation that occurs when you are trying to be the most professional version of yourself versus sitting on the same side of the table with your clients to say, all right, here’s where we’re at. Here’s what we think is going to work. Here’s why we think that. Here’s the data to support it. Are you on board with this and that collaboration of of lowering your own guard, not taking yourself too seriously, but being on the same side of the table to get the job done together? It goes a really long way. And I think, I think clients, they’re used to working with, uh, agencies who have a little bit of a, an arm’s length approach to things. And we I mean, we’ve been to baby showers and weddings and trips with our clients, and that’s the way we like it.

Joey Kline: [00:32:07] I think that’s right. And it’s so it’s almost shocking. Like what such a little difference like that can make or. No, it’s not shocking that that makes a difference. It’s understandable. What is shocking is that most people still hide behind that veneer of, um, formality, maybe a little bit too much. Um, I was I was talking with someone recently who started a new construction company, and they said what they thought was somewhat of a novel statement, like, we just like to be fun, we want to be fun to work with. And I was like, I can’t tell you, like, how often I’ve actually used that word because, like, yes, you need to be really good at what you do, but let’s enjoy each other’s time, right? There are going to be moments in any client, um, service relationship that are stressful. And the more that we can at least have some levity and fun with each other, it just makes for a nicer experience in the day.

Brooke MacLean: [00:33:07] It does, it does. And I think it also directly impacts and lowers the degree of miscommunications, because if you trust the person that you’re working with on a daily basis, you give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe their email, their slack came off a little harsh, but you know them because you’ve had good conversations with them outside of the workspace workforce. And in that all of these slights and miscommunications and defense mechanisms, they start to just disseminate. And that is really why, um, we put a lot of emphasis in our culture of connecting with people first.

Joey Kline: [00:33:45] Um, what do you think is the most surprising thing that you wouldn’t have expected to be a reality of your day to day since you kind of, you know, full time kind of got back into market wake.

Brooke MacLean: [00:33:58] Uh, reality of my day to day, uh, the amount of meetings. So we are very much of an in person culture. I think it I mean, even back in 2020, we were still very much an in person culture. And I think it has given us an edge to this point of being able to work quickly and efficiently and connect with each other. Our onboarding is weeks instead of months, which is very nice. I think I spent a lot of my day doing gut checks, making sure that I can be a sounding board for people. Uh, and then in this most recent acquisition, it’s now building up a new team to run software in the middle of our our normal day to day role of serving clients.

Joey Kline: [00:34:40] You know you would. I don’t think you will be shocked at how in my line of business, how many executives get who ask me, it’s like I can’t get I can’t get people to come in like, what do I do? What’s the silver bullet? I’m like it. It’s like I’m not trying to be reductive, but as long as you’re modeling that behavior and you’re making this like a good, enjoyable place to be and you have interesting people to be around, it shouldn’t be that hard. There is not some magic formula here. This is like, do I have a mission that people believe in? Do I have other people that people want to be around? And it’s you know, I imagine it sounds like this is just something that you’ve been doing. It’s not like there’s this big magic formula of how I, you know, x plus y plus z equals people want to be around each other.

Brooke MacLean: [00:35:31] That that is it. That is it. One. Absolutely. To the modeling, the behavior, the number of people that there. How do you do this? I say, well, I’m in the office every single day. Oh well I can’t do that. Well then how do you expect your team to do that? You have to do it first. So I am in the office, but and then also from a culture perspective, we like each other. We have fun. It is a dog friendly office, which is helpful because I do think that that that matters. I can.

Joey Kline: [00:35:56] Attest that is a very enjoyable part of being.

Brooke MacLean: [00:35:58] In your office. Very enjoyable. But across the board we enjoy spending time together and it’s fun. Our employees, they do trips together, they go to the beach together, they go skiing together. So they’re friends in and outside of work, which again helps us just move so quickly because we start sharing brains, which sounds crazy, but we do. We start storing information in each other’s minds. We know what someone else is going to say. We spend a lot of time together, and it just helps us all be in sync. So our clients have a very similar experience, whether they’re working with someone on the paid media side or on the creative side, or in social media, because we are all really in sync and speaking the same language. But yes, you have to be able to model it. If you’re not willing to do it, they probably won’t either.

Joey Kline: [00:36:42] That’s right. I mean, the, the, the, the work friendship, both personally and professionally is so valuable and special. I just don’t I feel very bad for people that are totally missing out on that. I don’t think I don’t think they’re going to realize until later in their career like what they actually missed out on.

Brooke MacLean: [00:37:00] That’s exactly because we spend so much time at work, so much time in our jobs and in our careers and pursuing growth. And why not have a little fun along the way and do it with people that you actually care about personally, not just professionally? Totally.

Joey Kline: [00:37:15] I met my wife at work. It’s you know if, you know?

Brooke MacLean: [00:37:18] Well, there you go.

Joey Kline: [00:37:19] There you go.

Brooke MacLean: [00:37:19] I love that.

Joey Kline: [00:37:21] Right? Um, okay, let’s let’s talk about this recent acquisition, because I think that’s very interesting. My guess. And you will confirm this or deny this, that this wasn’t necessarily something that was planned. It just kind of happened.

Brooke MacLean: [00:37:34] Yes, absolutely. We’ve we have had a goal of some sort of acquisition for the past two years. We have been down the road pretty far with a few different companies. And then at the last minute, and Raj, you’ve mentioned this too, but it falls apart for whatever reason. And there are sometimes necessary reasons where that happens. This one, it came in our radar and a couple months later it kind of came back into our radar. And then a couple months later it came back. And so it was one of those that I couldn’t shake, but I wasn’t sure if it was the right direction to go. Software again. Now, this is a tool that we use all the time. So we already had the benefit of having integrated into our work streams. Our clients were familiar with it, our team was familiar with it. So really it came down to, okay, do we have it in us to integrate a software into our processes seamlessly? How separate are these teams going to be? Because we have an amazing culture, and what we don’t want to do is feel like we have two totally different teams working within the same umbrella. So what does that look like? And then do we have the appetite to scale? And when all of those came back, yes, we have the appetite to scale. No, we do not need to keep these very separate teams. Our our team already has a lot of information on how to scale a tech company, because the majority of our clients are B2B. Uh, we can do this. And it was really it was very interesting to see the excitement that our management team and our leadership team had around this idea. When I brought it to them, they were all in, and I was expecting and anticipating a little bit of pushback, and we received none. So when we went down that path, um, it’s been amazing to see the adoption, the integration, the excitement and the growth that our our team treats it, the software and that team as if they’ve always been here. That’s great.

Joey Kline: [00:39:27] That’s wonderful. It’s. And it sounds like that was. I’m sure you didn’t expect maybe negativity, but it sounds like the seamlessness and the positivity was maybe somewhat surprising to you.

Brooke MacLean: [00:39:40] Yes, absolutely. Well, yes it was. The product is fantastic. It works well. So I think that that made it a whole lot easier to when they knew what a solid platform this was, especially uh, it’s a company called Punch List. And the the purpose of it is to collect aggregate feedback, especially for creative teams of which we are. So it’s amazing. It integrates with asana. It integrates with Monday, it integrates with teamwork, all of these other web applications to manage projects and do project management. It already integrates with those. So for us to be able to collect feedback in one mechanism for whether it’s a website or a PDF or, um, any kind of creative material, and then sync it into our project management system and create those tasks, it eliminated 15 steps from our day. So for our team, it was a no brainer because it’s already making our daily lives easier. Why not own it and grow it for sure?

Joey Kline: [00:40:38] Um, final topic here. You know, Atlanta is kind of the, uh, excuse the, uh, potentially, uh, you know, obscure reference, but it’s it’s kind of the Greek chorus in the background. I feel like, of this, this show. Right. There’s typically an Atlanta story, whether we’re talking about organizations that are homegrown here in Atlanta or some sort of a business unit that moves here. Right? It’s always kind of shifting in the background, speaking to us in a different way. And I’m curious what how you feel Atlanta has affected your success in your company.

Brooke MacLean: [00:41:13] I love it. I really do. I grew up here and promised myself I would never live here. So right after college.

Brooke MacLean: [00:41:21] So I never, ever, ever really live here. I traveled about 32 weeks a year. I was working for a company out in California for thought that was going to be my new home, and after traveling that much for so many years, I realized there’s nowhere like Atlanta. The opportunities, the people, the culture, the the intersection of all different types. I mean, we have amazing to see here. Direct to consumer. We have amazing B2B in tech. We have amazing fintech, we have incredible investors and opportunities. It really is a playground for being an entrepreneur. And so I love it. And I think that the talent that we find here is pretty amazing. So as we’re looking to grow and expand, it’s another reason why we’ve continued to source talent here. And not to say that we don’t have talent in other places, but we’ve just found over and over people are more willing to move here than even wanting to stay where they are and work remote.

Joey Kline: [00:42:13] Sure. Yeah. Well, especially if you’re going to look if if you’re going to join a company like yours, I think that that person that you have vetted, right, if they’ve come out the other end, they they want to be part of the mission at this stage in the company. Yes. And of course, it helps that we happen to be located in a pretty cool city.

Brooke MacLean: [00:42:32] It sure does. Yeah, it really does.

Joey Kline: [00:42:34] Yeah. Look, I felt the exact same way. And in I think I’ve learned but also Atlanta has, I think, become a much more interesting, fun place to live in the past 15 to 20 years or so.

Brooke MacLean: [00:42:46] I think so too. It is. It has changed quickly. It is not going to slow down by any means. I mean, even looking at I can’t remember, but I think it’s between 6 and 10 million more people were anticipating over the next ten plus years. That’s a lot of people. Um, so I think that we’re just getting started, to be honest with you.

Joey Kline: [00:43:05] I would agree the I think the the most the most recent jump is we have gone from the ninth largest metro about five years ago to the sixth largest metro, uh, leapfrogging Miami, Philly and DC. Um, which is pretty impressive feat. No small feat. Yes. Um, Brooke, if someone listening to this wants to learn more about Marketwake, learn more about you. Where do they go? How do they do that?

Brooke MacLean: [00:43:29] Marketwake.com that is Marketwake. We get it all the time. Is it week? Is it? It’s Marketwake.

Joey Kline: [00:43:36] Wake? Yes.

Brooke MacLean: [00:43:38] Marketwake.com. And then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. Brooke B McLean.

Joey Kline: [00:43:42] Okay.

Joey Kline: [00:43:43] Brooke Raj, thank you so much for sharing your stories.

Brooke MacLean: [00:43:46] Absolutely thrilled to be here. Thank you.

Joey Kline: [00:43:48] Okay, have a good day everyone. Thanks for listening to Tech Talk.